Stolmar Ilona "Magyar a magyarhoz!" cimmel tett felhivast,
es (nyilvan rossz tapasztalatai voltak hogy piocafelek mindenbe
beleakaszkodnak) kulon kimondta, hogy hottentotta ugyekkel
nem foglalkozik.  Jon erre csomo pioca, vagy hottentotta,
vagy hottentotta pioca, mit tudom en, es beleakaszkodik.

Langi Maria "Magyar asszonyok fogjunk ossze!" cimmel
felhivast tett. Jon erre egy csomo pioca, aki talan bizonyos
szempontbol magyar, de asszonynak biztos hogy nem
asszony, magara veszi az asszonyokhoz szolo felhivast, csak
hogy beleakaszkodhassek.

Itt van pl. Szucs Istvan (ketlem, hogy asszony lenne), irja:

>Nezze kedves Langi Maria -...
>Ha nyilvanos hirdetest tesz akkor szamithat  ra hogy
>nyilvanos valaszt is fog kapni. Ha ezt az on gyomra nem
>kepes megemeszzteni akkor ne vallaljon szereplest a Usenet
>nyilvanossaga elott. Ha valaki arra ker hogy ot ne
>zavarjak azt illik betartani egeszen addig amig az illeto
>nem valal "kozszerepet".  Ha kilep a nyilvanossag ele akkor
>ezt azzal a tudattal teszi hogy nyilvanos reakciokat for
>kapni akakr tetszik akar nem. (Akar kivancsi ra akar nem.)

Mikor fogjak ezek a piocak megtanulni, hogy vannak dolgok,
amikhez semmi kozuk? Ha valaki kimondottan "magyar
asszonyokhoz" szol, akkor aki vagy nem magyar, vagy nem
asszony, de leginkabb nem "magyar asszony", az ne kosson bele!

Hottentottak hasznaljak a soc.culture.hottentotta-t, piocak
hasznaljak a soc.culture.pioca-t, vagy equivalenseket.

In article >, "Dan K." > wrote:

> To All:
> 
> I wish all a truly happy Easter on the remembrance day of the Lord's
Resurrection.  It 
>
> 
> God Bless, Dan K.

God has not blessed Dan K. with the elementary knowledge that soc.
culture. jewish is hardly the place to wish anyone a Happy Easter, of all
things! The same applies to any other group that is clearly non-Christian.

The best that can be said is that the Last Supper was a Seder by the Jew
Jesus and his Jewish disciples after which Christians and Jews differ on
what happened next and what it all meant. Hope everyone here has had/will
have a good Passover. 
By the way, many Russians celebrate Easter a week later than most
Christians, so you are also off, Dan. 

Juris Kaza
The barely less ignorant Latvian Goy (regarding matters Jewish).

Chester Kopec wrote:
> 
> michael & marika Grossman ) wrote:
> : In > "Dan K." > writes:
> 
> : >
> : >Despite statements by Yeltsin to the contrary, the Chechen War of
> : >Independence rages on and news reports today declared that 45 Russian
> : >State Terrorists have been killed or are missing at the hands of the
> : >Chechen Freedom Fighters.  A Sukhoi jet bomber was also shot down.
> : >
> : >The reports, McNeil Lehrer on TV and other radio sources, said that
> : >62% of the Russian people have had enough of state terrorism against
> : >the Chechen people and want Yeltsin to stop the war for good.  500,000
> : >Chechens have been forced to flee their homes and many villages have
> : >been totally flattened by the state terrorists in addition to their
> : >capital Grozny.  It is time for Russia to give the brave Chechen
> : >people what all nations want, the right to life, liberty and the
> : >pursuit of happiness.  Russia must come to terms with the fact that
> : >she must let the remaining nations, who are still under her
> : domination,
> : >go free if she is to ever become a civilized and democratic society.
> : >
> : >Regards, Dan K.
> 
> : Dan, what would you call ethnic Russians and Tatars in Crimea if they
> : would decide to, finally, get rid of the yoke of the Ukranian
> : occupation of their land? I bet "freedom fighters"!!!
> 
> : Mike Grossman, E. Bridgewater, Mass.
> 
> : P.S. To G-n Streltsov: In your posts you have been defending Chechen
> : terrorists all along. Following your logic one must consider the Hamas
> : bastards "freedom fighters" as well.
> 
> 
>                   To Mike @ Marika
> 
>        Chechens are defending their land from russian invaders.
>        Chechnya was a free country until Russians got in around 300 years ago
.
>        Russians were taking over some other republics as well. So called
>        "expension" and "reforms" under the communist regime left millions
>        of innocent people dead . Russian power hungry "bear" was destroying
>        real democracy in those republics and roots of the original people.
>        Patriots were prosecuted,shot or imprisoned. Hands of Russia's
>        secret police members were washed in blood of innocent nations.
>        If you don't see the difference between terrorists and freedom
>        fighters then you deserve to be called "bastard".
>        Stop spreading lies and "red propaganda". We know the truth.
>                                                              CK
> p.s. my employer has nothing to do with my opinion
> 
> 

	As far as i remember, Chechnia was not an independent country,
it was part of the Ottoman Empire. That's the real reason russia
started that war, it was a power struggle with Turkey, not the Chechens.
They just happened to be in the way.
					k.s.

Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>Az az erdekes P.J.-ben, hogy mindenkit lehulyez es kozben nem ir SEMMIT.

Mindenkinek erdeme szerint.  Kulonben nekem nincs szuksegem, hogy
bizonyitsak a magad fajta Johnny-come-lately figuraknak ezen a forumon.

>Egyszer mar kivancsi lennek a sajat velemenyere, ha van.
>Persze az is lehet, megbannam.

Merget vehetsz ra.

PJ

Brigitta Bali > wrote:
>
>Here's a poem I wrote which was recently published in "ORTUZ:
>Eszak-Amerikai Magyar Irok Negyedevenkent Megjeleno Irodalmi
>Folyoirata," 1996--2.evf.1.szam.
>
>SZERELMESVERS

This is great, too!  But now there is no way in earth you'll be able to
keep Goober away from you! ;-)

Joe

In article >,
 (RODERICVS READI) wrote:

> csource ) wrote:
> 
> : Ever heard of "Jews For Jesus?"  Contact them before it's too late!  
> 
>         Are they racists believing that after conversion from judaism to 
>         christianity the jewish character of the person remain in the genes?
> 
>         Rodericus.

That'd be a little hard since they're Jews, themselves.

I've known religious Jews, but I've also known Jews who have believed in
Buddhism, various forms of Eastern Mysticism, and New Age combinations,
and who have been agnostics or atheists.  In each case, they -- and
society -- have still considered them Jews, but if one believes in Jesus,
suddenly he's not a Jew.

Now, you're going so far as to say as they're racists.  That's ludicrous! 
Most Jewish people I know who believe in Jesus (and it's not that many)
are proud of their culture.

-- 
Yvonne Lee
)

Eric Silber wrote:
> 
> In article > 
>  (Jason Silverman) writes:
>  an diese Gruppen schreibt er:
> 
> > soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.austria,
> > soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.intercultural,soc.culture.usa,
> > soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.magyar,soc.culture.polish,
> > soc.culture.romanian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.ukrainian,
> > soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.yugoslavia,
> > soc.culture.jewish
> 
>  Es sollte vielleicht unter Paragraph XYZ der Netiquette folgendes 
>  stehen:
> 
>  Ein Usenet Posting soll an nicht mehr als 3 NewsGruppen gerichtet 
>  werden.

Manche Leute wissen einfach nicht, was sie tun. Andere wissen es, 
kuemmern sich aber nicht weiter um die Folgen. Beispiel aus einer 
(ansonsten netten) Antwort auf eine Mail, die ich letztens an einen 
dieser Knilche geschickt hatte:

: ... Don't worry on my knowledge of buttons on the news-reader.  
: FYI, once I decided to answer on a particular news, the 
: "reply-all" button is what I usually press. ...

Wahrscheinlich besser als Versuche, den Leuten in Einzelaktionen ins 
Gewissen zu reden, waere m.E. ein Automatismus, der jedem, der an 
mehr als z.B. 5 Gruppen postet, eine Nachricht etwa folgender Art 
zukommen liesse:

| This is an an automatic reply.
|
| You have posted the message quoted below to soc.culture.german and 
| at least 4 other groups. Please try to avoid accidental cross-posts 
| and make sure your messages are of some relevance for the newsgroups 
| they're sent to. 
|
| Thank you for your collaboration.
|
| > ... 
| > [ Zitat ] 
| > ...

Eine Automatisierung haette auch den Vorteil, dass niemand sich ob 
des Inhalts der eine solch standardisierte Antwort ausloesenden 
Nachricht angegriffen fuehlen koennte. 

Was haltet Ihr davon?
                       Johannes

--
 Johannes Schwenke

 I. Physikalisches Institut der RWTH Aachen, D-52056 Aachen 
 

In article >,
    () wrote:

[...]
Meg egy ures...:)


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Hi!

   I am an American/Hungarian, and unfortunately, I was not brought up
speaking the language.  I have a book called "Teach Yourself Hungarian" by
Zsuzsa Pontifex, however, I think that the best way to learn a language is
if it is spoken (or in this case,...written).  Therefore, if there is any
brave soul out there who is interested in conversing in Hungarian/English,
please let me know!  

Thanks,
Susan

In article >,
 > wrote:
| Stolmar Ilona "Magyar a magyarhoz!" cimmel tett felhivast,
| es (nyilvan rossz tapasztalatai voltak hogy piocafelek mindenbe
| beleakaszkodnak) kulon kimondta, hogy hottentotta ugyekkel
| nem foglalkozik.  Jon erre csomo pioca, vagy hottentotta,
| vagy hottentotta pioca, mit tudom en, es beleakaszkodik.
| 
| Langi Maria "Magyar asszonyok fogjunk ossze!" cimmel
| felhivast tett. Jon erre egy csomo pioca, aki talan bizonyos
| szempontbol magyar, de asszonynak biztos hogy nem
| asszony, magara veszi az asszonyokhoz szolo felhivast, csak
| hogy beleakaszkodhassek.
| 
| Itt van pl. Szucs Istvan (ketlem, hogy asszony lenne), irja:
| 
| >Nezze kedves Langi Maria -...
| >Ha nyilvanos hirdetest tesz akkor szamithat  ra hogy
| >nyilvanos valaszt is fog kapni. Ha ezt az on gyomra nem
| >kepes megemeszzteni akkor ne vallaljon szereplest a Usenet
| >nyilvanossaga elott. Ha valaki arra ker hogy ot ne
| >zavarjak azt illik betartani egeszen addig amig az illeto
| >nem valal "kozszerepet".  Ha kilep a nyilvanossag ele akkor
| >ezt azzal a tudattal teszi hogy nyilvanos reakciokat for
| >kapni akakr tetszik akar nem. (Akar kivancsi ra akar nem.)
| 
| Mikor fogjak ezek a piocak megtanulni, hogy vannak dolgok,
| amikhez semmi kozuk? Ha valaki kimondottan "magyar
| asszonyokhoz" szol, akkor aki vagy nem magyar, vagy nem
| asszony, de leginkabb nem "magyar asszony", az ne kosson bele!

Mondja kedves Kovacs Istvan, On pioca, hottentotta vagy
Magyar asszony? Ha tetszik, ha nem, Langi Maria egy publikus
forumon irt, amelyet nem csak Magyar Asszonyok
olvasnak.Ugy latom on mind az on szerint CSAK  Magyar
Asszonyoknak szolo Langi Maria fele hirdetmenyt, olvasta,
mind azt a levelet amit en Langi Marianak irtam. Sajat
levelemet eppugy mint Langi Mariaet publikus forumon tettem,
igy nem nehezmenyeze4m hogy on reagalt ra, de ha egy kicsit
is konzekvens lenne, eszrevenne hogy ha on ugy erzi  hogy en
nekem nem illik hozzaszolnom Langi Maria levelere a Magyar
asszonyokhoz akkor onnek ennel is nagyobb illetlenseg ahhoz
a levelehez hozzaszolnia amelyet en Langi Marianak cimeztem.

On levelevel tehat csak megerositette hogy on is ugy tartja
hogy egy publikus forumon kozzetett nyilt, publikus levelhez
nem csak a szuken megszolitott cimzett szolhat hozza. Ezt koszonom.


| Hottentottak hasznaljak a soc.culture.hottentotta-t, piocak
| hasznaljak a soc.culture.pioca-t, vagy equivalenseket.

En magyar vagyok igy maradok a soc.culture.magyar-nal. 
On?

Brigitta Bali > wrote:
>
>BTW, Wally says you're WELL HUNGary -- no PUNgarian intended. Is that true?

I would hate to disagree with Wally in anything!  Just look what
happened to those who did in the soc.culture.romanian.  He made a minced
meat out of them. ;-)

Joe

Subject: U.S. congressman visits Romania
Organization: Copyright 1996 by United Press International
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 5:30:50 PDT
  	  				 
	BUCHAREST, April 9 (UPI) -- U.S. Rep. Tom Lantos, who once helped  
derail Romania's drive for most favored nation trading status in the 
United States, said Tuesday he helped Romania and Hungary sign their 
long-awaited friendship treaty. 
	``I offered to (Romanian) President Ion Iliescu and to Hungarian  
Prime Minister Gyula Horn a few days ago in Budapest my good offices to 
lubricate the process of reaching a final agreement, should that be 
necessary,'' the California Democrat told a news conference shortly 
before leaving Bucharest. 
	Lantos, who spent three days in talks with Iliescu, Foreign Minister  
Teodor Melescanu and the speakers of the two parliamentary chambers, 
said he was satisfied with Romania's democratization process. 
	Four years ago, Lantos led a U.S. Congress veto on granting Romania  
the most favored nation clause, citing the eastern European country's 
violation of human rights for a 1.6 million-strong Hungarian ethnic 
minority. 
	``Some years ago, I played a key role in preventing Romania from  
receiving the MFN clause and it pleases me because of the changes I have 
witnessed that I am now in a position to support the MFN clause for 
Romania,'' he said. 
	Lantos welcomed Romania's progress on the question of the ethnic  
minorities, but said it was ``far from being complete.'' 
	While praising Iliescu for allowing ethnic Hungarians to have  
separate university sections to study in their mother tongue, Lantos 
pressed for the establishment of ``a full-fledged (ethic Hungarian) 
university.'' 
	Romania and Hungary have been drafting a bilateral treaty since 1991,  
with Budapest demanding equal rights for ethnic Hungarians in 
Transylvania, in northwestern Romania, including high education 
institutions and self-ruled local administration. 
	While open to allowing ethnic Hungarians more human rights, Romania  
is still reluctant to include in the treaty a Council of Europe 
recommendation giving ethnic groups the right to set up self-ruled 
enclaves. 
	``I am here not to negotiate an agreement between Romania and  
Hungary, but to facilitate the development of friendly relations,'' said 
Lantos. 
	Lantos said Romania's future is in giving local administration more  
power and preventing extremist parties from entering a Romanian 
government in general elections in October. 
	A coalition deal early in 1995, between the ruling Social Democracy  
Party and three nationalist minor parties has further strained Romania's 
relations with Hungary and the European Union. 
	It was only after the extremist parties strongly criticized NATO and  
the U.S.ambassador to Bucharest that the SDP decided to break ties with 
two of them. 
	Lantos said that a ``centrist'' government would ``largely solve the  
ethnic problem'' in Romania. 

--	 
For our announcement about news from UPI and AP, see our posting  
in clari.net.announce, or see our web page (http://www.clari.net).

RODERICVS READI wrote:
 
> : RODERICVS READI wrote: 
> : >  Are they racists believing that after conversion from judaism to
> : >  christianity the jewish character of the person remain in the genes? 
> Dan K. ) wrote: 
> Actually, since I am a little familiar with them, I can assure you that they
> are not rasict. 
>         If they are christian zionists, as many groups that I know in
>         germany (not belonging to the traditional christianity, but to       
  the west european reformed sects), as the so called "christian embassy"
         in jerusalem, then yes, they are racists and supporters of piratery.
         And the reason to suspect that they are christian zionists, is that
         from what you write is obvious that judaism for them is not a religion
,
>         but an ethnic group. 
> Rather they believe that Jesus, (Yeshua), (Isus in Ukrainian),
> was indeed the Messiah just as the first Christians were in fact Jewish. 
>         The first christians were palestinians, not european (ashkenazi,
>         german) jews, although many of them might have the jewish religion   
      before. Their language was aramaic and their descendants speak today
         an arabic dialect highly influenced by aramaic, namely the dialect
         of the whole region of syria and palestine, the language was used unti
l
         about 200 years ago in the christian rites (later substituted by
         arabic) and is alive in some syrian (christian and muslim) towns until
         today. Their language wasn't daitsch (jiddisch) nor ivrit (a language
         created in the laboratory with the rests of the hebrew of the jewish
         rites). Many of them converted to islam later (they were at the muslim
         side during the cruzades, first after the desception of the cruzades
         became the mayority of palestinians muslim). The last cruzade, the one
         of the european jewish franks of this century is errasing forever the
         2000 years old christian prescence in the holy land, the holy sites of
         christendom are becoming museums in the hands of the plunderers with
         the western support, because for the west "the christians" are the
         western christians, and "the jews" are the western jews, that is just
         their tribal thinking.
         Christian zionists on the other side are the most repugnant egoists
         I know, they need "the jews" for practizing their religion, whose
         purpose isn't the worship of God, but a spiritual self satisfaction
         (masturbation). The "jewish people" and the "conversion of the jews
         at the end of the times" is understood wordly by them, "the jews" are
         for them the most near ones to them, namely, the europeans believing
         on the jewish religion, and "the christians" are of course only
         themselves, the people of the "christian embassy" continuosly deny
         the existence of native christians in the holy land. They believe that
         all "the jews" must go to what they call israel (our profanated
         palestine) for being converted to their "christianism".
         I know, the most of you (western people) will not believe on what I
         wrote, as also not on scholar work about palestine, you will only
         believe zionist propaganda and religious mythes, and later cinicaly
         call arabs "religious fundamentalists".
>         Al-Massih qaam,
>         Rodericus.


Rodericus, 
 
I do not want to get into a discussion of Ishmaelite vs. Israeli, rather I sugg
est that 
the main point of my posting was that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came i
nto
the world of Jewish parentage, as prophesied by God's prophets of Israel, and w
as
crucified as prophesied and rose from the dead as prophesied.  Because this sam
e
Jesus is alive, it is possible to KNOW him personally and to receive the promis
e
of the New Testament which is reconciliation with God.  This promise is not onl
y
for Europeans and the children of Israel, but also for the children of Ishmael
and indeed for all of mankind.

Regards, Dan K.

James Garner wrote:

>         Jesus was not the Messiah, and was not the "Son of God". He was
> the bastard son of an adulterous woman, who offended the Romans with his
> mutterings and in the end could not even save himself, let alone the
> Jewish people, and was nailed on a piece of wood for his efforts. And the
> only thing that rises is dough, not your "God-on-a-stick."
> 
>        
Lets all build the fellowship of Christians and Jews! Dan K.'s post 
was out of place but was no cause for a tirade against his beliefs. I 
don't think Jews would appreciate a similar attack on their beliefs, 
i.e. celebrating the correction of a wrong turn in the Sinai (whenever 
the Children of Israel marched into the hands of the Egyptians, then 
got themselves out again. If Moses had had a AAA map, half your 
holidays would be gone)...that's just a mild joke, but why go on? 
There is no need to trade venomous religious insults.

Juris K

From: : 8 Apr 1996
Subject: Re: Gabor Barsai, the Don Juan of SCM
Message-ID: >
References: >


Wally Keeler > wrote:
>When I was young in the spring I wrote this:
>
>They love you because
>you are Sister of the Sun
>You are one their eyes
>cannot look upon
>though they risk in vain
>desperate and quick attempts
>...
 (Joe Pannon) wrote:
|You really wrote that, Wally?  So different from what I've seen from you
|so far.  I love it!

Yeh, I know. It's quite out of character to the smart-ass, insolent,
disrespectful, visceral stuff I usually post, especially down in SCR, as
you well know. I figured I'd move up-river for a bit and toy with some of
the local Magyar Morsels. The past few days have seen quite the snowfall
here and I needed to vent some cabin fever, the common Canadian malady when
you feel the glaciers are slowly moving in.

Yes I did write that poem -- long long time ago.
Here's another one which I wrote several years after my father's suicide.
I was 12 when he did it. He suffered from war dreams -- WWII.

(from the book entitled:
Walking on the Greenhouse Roof, 1969, Delta Canada Press
by Wally Keeler)

PRAYER FOR MY FATHER

Csak egy megjegyzes Kovacs Istvan iranyaba:
Mindaddig amig nincs soc.cultura.magyar.asszonyok, addig Szucs Istvannak van 
koze minden megjelent iromanyhoz, es az azokhoz valo hozzaszolashoz is. Ezt 
jelenti az 'unmoderated' tobbek kozott. Szoval hagyjuk egymast beken az ilyen 
balgasagokkal.
Udv: Kovacs Gyuri

Why are Hungarian men often depicted in films as holding a cigarette 
between thumb and index finger, often vertically.

Even in the film The Usual Suspects, the antagonist Kayser Soze, as 
played by the limping "Gimp" Kevin Spacey is shown, early on, sucking 
cigarette fumes in this posture (a tip-off that he's the Hungarian devil 
himself).

It certainly is a sexy posture...  Why do you guys do it this way?

Donata Martinec Lewandowski Guerra
Screenwriter

Dan K. ) wrote:
  
I do not want to get into a discussion of Ishmaelite vs. Israeli, rather I 
suggest that the main point of my posting was [...].  This promise is not only
for Europeans and the children of Israel, but also for the children of Ishmael
and indeed for all of mankind.

	And we come to the begining, as all what I wrote were completely
	ignored.

	"Ishmaelite vs. Israeli" are common religious terms of the three
	monotheistic religions, and they must be understood *in the context
	of religion* not ethnicaly in the modern sense, the confusion is not 
	only the root of our misunderstanding, but the root of the modern
	antisemitism that was also the cause of the great nazi crime. Zionists
	are the first interested on mantaining this confusion, because their
	political agenda is based on it.

	Arabs aren't the descendents of Ismael, as Jews (european, arab, 
	etiopian or whatever) also aren't the descendents of Israel. The
	religious meaning of a "common father" is to remark the spiritiual
	brotherhood of the believers, not to define a race or ethnic group
	in the modern sense.

	The old Hebrews was ethnicaly the same as the inhabitants of the
	great syrian territory (that includes palestine), as said, their
	language was the same syrian language of this whole region, and 
	their descendants are the arabs living there today, not the european
	jews. 
	
	The european jews (not the arabs, not the ethiopians, not the
	indians) of all east europe are ethnicaly germans, yes,
	they call themselves "ashkenazi" what come from "ashkenas" meaning
	german, they speak a german dialect, and their history is connected
	with germany. The first german-jewish settlers in east europe came
	after the religious persecutions in the times of the first cruzades,
	their origin is in the german palatinate, from the territories arround
	Speier, Worms and Mainz. They were not always persecuted, also not
	by the cruzadors, they were the providers and financists of the
	german order plundering east europe (Do you remember Alexander 
	Nevski?).
	
	Their best time was during the polish state, but the social structure 
	of this state was divided by ethnicity and religion: The noblemen and 
	land tenants were catholic polish, the middle-class (mainly artisans)
	were jewish german, the slaves (Leibeigene) were other peoples, mainly 
	orthodox. You can imagine that such state must have strong social 
	tensions, and indeed, the rebelion of the oppressed masses was against 
	the catholic nobility and jewish middle-class, this is the cause of 
	the pogroms. The fall of the polish state ends with the living base
	of the jewish middle-clase and cause that the jewish germans begin in 
	masses to inmigrate to the german principates and austria, where the 
	process of the emancipation of the jews (namely the secularization) 
	was advancing, but the mass inmigration delayed this proces and 
	produced the xenophobia against jews, the nazis not only reversed all 
	progress in the proces of emancipation, but with their hate propaganda 
	they converted the xenophobia in antisemitism with the consequences 
	we all know.

	This history is much more complicated that what I wrote, there are
	too much details to learn, but it is part of the real history, not 
	the modern zionist and european official version that reduce all to 
	"the innate antisemitism of non-jews" based on religious mythes and
	concatenation of selected historical events. It is not an arab who 
	must write the history of europeans and european jews, as it is also 
	not the europeans and zionists who must write the history of palestine 
	and the middle-east. There is enough recomendable scolar work on this 
	themata, but also abundant zionist and western propaganda for popular 
	consume, I hope you find the right sources.

	Rodrigo.

Event on: April 13 (Saturday), 1996

Frequently asked question:=20
=09Do I have to be a Hungarian or a dancer to attend?

Answer:  Majority of the people have no Hungarian or Eastern European=20
=09background at all; and  they just want to meet new people while=20
=09enjoying fast-beat Hungarian music.

 Tanchaz Place:

 College Park, MD (USA) -  whithin the Washington D.C. Beltway
 Starting Point Dance Studio . From I495 take Route 1 South
 toward College Park . After passing the UM complex , make a left
 onto Calvert Rd. The studio is in the first building on your right,
 behind Clean and Lean Laudromat/Fitness Center

Admission: $4 ($3 for Tisza members)

Time:  7:30 pm until 10:30 pm=20

Contact: Cathy Lamont (301)-929-0120

=DCdv=F6zlettel,

=C1rpad F=E1bi=E1n Kov=E1cs
--
WWW                : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kovacs
personal email     : 

iFodor wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> A kovetkezo levelre figyeltem fel:
> 
> =+=+=
> From: 
> Subject: RE: Teruletrendezest! - valasz Bodi Antalnak
> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 01:38:13
> 
> Kedves Toni,
> 
> Ne sertodj meg azon hogy Toth Judith 'teljes agymosott  es
> sotetsegben botorkalo'-nak titulalt. Itt az igazi  Silicon
> Valley-ben dolgozo magyar mernokok tobbsege teljesen egyetert
> Veled.
> 
> Jo ha tudod hogy a 'magyar erdekekert harcolo  Siliconvalley
> nemzeti erzesu harcosai' nem Silicon Valley-bol hanem Canadabol
> (valahonnan Montreal kornyekerol) vivjak hosi csatajukat...
> 
> -gyuri
> Palo Alto
> (az igazi Silicon Valley-bol)
> 
> 
> =+=+=
> 
> amire szeretnek reagalni:
> 
> En azert mast  uzennek B. Antalnak. Nagyon javasolnam,  gondolkozzon el T.
> Judith levelen,
> mert szerintem az telitalalat volt. Nem kell nagyon olvasottnak lenni hogy az
> ember lassa: M.o.-
> on valosagos ideologiai haboru folyik az alliberalis kozmopolita vilagnezetu 
es
> nemzeti erzesu
> ertelmisegiek kozott.  Az elobbiek viszonylag nagy tabora foleg az agymosas
> aldozata, amit egy
> szuk reteg sajat erdekebe meglovagol es kozben "gurul a rohogestol" is.
> Szerencsere nem
> remenytelen a helyzet. Abban is remenykedem, hogy az "igazi Silicon Valley"-b
en
> is  sokan
> megertik ezt.
> Kozeledik az Olimpiasz. Ezzel kapcsolatban kivancsi lennek, kinek fognak
> drukkolni a magyar
> kozmopolitak? Del-Amerikai orszagoknak, ahol szepek a nok?  Vagy ahol kevesbe
> fuszeres a
> koszt? Vagy ebbol  ok mar kinottek - senkinek?
> f.i.
> ------------------
Mr. Fodor seems to know very little about the so-called "Del-Amerikai 
orszagok" and the little he knows is outright romantic delusion. South 
American women are neither more beautiful than their counterparts in 
North America or in Hungary, nor is South American cuisine less spicy 
than elsewhere. Although the notion of beauty is rather subjective, 
still, I think a polling of the cognoscenti around the world would 
pronounce South American women less beautiful than in North America and 
Hungary (of course, if the cognoscenti's knowledge is not based on the 
look of the actresses in South American soap-operas but on the average 
South American women). And for spiciness the South American cuisine would 
beat any Hungarian food. Ergo, any sensible cosmopolitan Hungarian, on 
the basis of Mr. Fodor's criterion for showing one's patriotic or 
cosmopolitan sentiments would, by all means, pull for (drukkol) either 
the US or Hungarian athletes (or those of any other non Soth American 
countries).
The lesson to be drawn from Mr. Fodor's wisdom: little knowledge combined 
with ideological bigotry leads to wrong comparison and silly conclusions.
Sincerely, Laszlo Horvath

Challenge: to make this thread relevant to every group in the distribution list

In article >, Kirill Shcheglov
> wrote:

>         As far as i remember, Chechnia was not an independent country,
> it was part of the Ottoman Empire. That's the real reason russia
> started that war, it was a power struggle with Turkey, not the Chechens.
> They just happened to be in the way.
>                                         k.s.

Since the Ottoman empire died 70+ years ago with the end of WW I isn't it about
time to reexamine the question of the Russian empire? If a swallowed up nation
has survived inside the empire, isn't it time that they be let go if they 
wish to? It isn't like the european takeover of the Americas where the entire
idea of boundaries and land ownership as fixed, precise things did not exist 
prior to european contact. You just can't have long term co-existence between
a society of laws and a society of men. 

This discussion also has bearing on all of the other former and current 
buffer states for the Russians. The term "near abroad" is just an updated 
way of saying a buffer country that has no right to its own destiny, its own
policies and is slated for future absorption. And if former Ottomon territories
are fair game what are to become of countries like Romania which was (in part)
Ottomon dominated for centuries? Why stop there? The Austrians used to have
an empire. Surely if fighting the ghosts of the Ottomons is acceptable then
fighting the ghosts of the Austrian empire makes just as much sense.

DB

-- 
Romanian Political Pages now are available
http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus

Eva S. Balogh wrote:
> 
>     As Erdos Pflieger, I am publishing this article in English because
> I think it is time to air Ilona G. Stolmar's antisemitic activities on
> the Internet before a larger audience. Ms. Stolmar is using Hungarian,
> a language not widely spoken, and thus only a limited number of people
> have the "pleasure" of reading her outrageous writings. In her latest,
> she is accusing a fellow interneter of "breaking into her son's
> computer four years ago." After this accusation we have a muddled
> "philosophical" treatise on those who break into Christian churches.
> Rereading her rambling sentences one comes to the conclusion that she
> is accusing Hungarian Jews breaking into Christian churches and
> defiling them, "perhaps because of religious considerations, perhaps
> because of political considerations, perhaps because they are
> anti-Hungarian." But, for good measure, we read about "otherness,"
> about "faggots," about some people having a "superiority complex."
> 
> I already told Ms. Stolmar and her aliases several times that if anyone
> is defiling anything, it is she who is defiling the good name of
> Hungary and the Hungarian people. Now, I am telling her, that if she
> doesn't stop this activity, I personally will do everything in my power
> to stop her.
> 
> Eva Balogh--------------------
Bravo Ms Balogh!
I've been wondering about Ms Stolmar myself. Her rambling hate-mongering, 
her inuendos, and most of all her uncivilized, gutter language is too 
strong to come even from the lips of a country yokel. Not that I expect 
her to be a "lady". But she probably considers herself to be one.
As to somebody having broken into her computer! It sounds improbable. 
Even if it were technically feasible. What would be the motivation on the 
part of the accused person? Her home isn't the Pentagon.
I do think, however, that she is one of those restless, litigatious, 
quarrelsome, unhappy, and neurotic people one finds everywhere. And the 
Internet is a perfect forum for such characters.
In any case I would -as I am sure many others of the Internet that 
believe that the Internet should be a forum for discussion and exchange 
of ideas, rather than demagoguery and hate mongering, would- support you 
in your effort.
I don't pretend to be a Hungarian patriot (I left in 1956 and I am now 
first of all an American citizen) but I still love the country of my 
birth and am still concerned that Hungary and Hungarians have the 
reputation for being a Western type of democratic and European country of 
the 1990's.
Sincerely, Laszlo Horvath

English-speaking readers of this list may need to be advised of the
well-documented fact that "Eva S. Balogh" is a pathological liar whose
false accusations and anti-Hungarian hate-mongering deserves
zero credibility. Proof:

>X-Sender: 
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date:         Tue, 19 Mar 1996 14:21:52 -0800
>Reply-To: Hungarian Discussion List >

>Only a few days ago BLA electronic news service reported the findings of the
>Hungarian Gallup Institute concerning antisemitism in Hungary on the basis
>of voting patterns. The results are as follows. The question inquired about
>"dislike of Jews," "nem kedveli a zsidokat." The list is as follows. KFGP
>voters = 12%; KDNP voters = 11%, MSZD voters = 7%; MDF voters = 6%;
>FIDESZ voters = 6%;l SZDSZ voters = 4%. One's first reaction is: that's not
>too bad. But then add up these percentages to get the reaction of all voters:
>it is 46%.

English-speaking readers with reasonable skills of elementary school math
detect that in her blatant anti-Hungarian zeal to smear Hungarians with the
false accusation of rampant anti-semitism, she does not even refrain from
stupid mathematical forgery (as the 46% she claims is mathematically erroneous;
based on the numbers quoted the figure could not be higher than 12% and
can be as low as 4%).

Once Eva Balogh went public with such a blatantly untrue accusation against
Hungarians at large, one is fully justified to ponder on her motifs to do so.

The following proves that she harbors hatred agains Hungarians.

(1) Although she claims to be a "historian" went consistently public with the
outrageous anti-Hungarian defamation that the 1956 Revolution and Freedom-
Fight is NOT (I repeat, she stated NOT) called in Hungarian "Freedom Fight"!
I took the time to specifically document at least 41 cases to dispell her
flabbergasting lie that the entire Free World holds to be untrue.

(2) She repeatedly claims on various lists of Internet that she is of fully
mixed
heritage, and never claims specific Hungarian identity, and appears to be proud
of excluding ANY Jewish ancestry on her part.  Thus, her judgement and
autenticity
of "antisemitism" is highly questionable. This is reinforced by the
expressed restraint
of Jews joining her zealous anti-Hungarian hate-mongering, as moderate Jews
loyal
to Hungary know full well that her excesses would be highly decrimental to
their own interest -- even if her outrageous lies were true. In fact, Eva
Balogh not
once vented her frustration on Internet that Hungarian Jews are not
supportive enough
of her verbal abuse of Hungary and Hungarians. Quite likely, moderate Hungarian
Jews themselves consider her a mindless, stupid provocator (at least one
Hungarian
Jew -who has died since- in fact called her activities stemming from her
antisemitism).

(3) Eva Balogh is extremely incompetent judging matters relating not only to
Hungarian, but also to Jewish identity. Just a few days ago, she made the
written, unbelievably stupid statement in the Internet-list HIX-Forum
(written in the Hungarian language), that "Passover is Easter"!  It is proven
beyond reasonable doubt, that Eva Balogh deserves no credibility at all either
in Christian or Jewish matters, since she is ignorant in one, or in the other,
or (most likely) in both.

(4) It is highly suspicious that Eva Balogh heats up her anti-Hungarian hate-
mongering precisely at the time when Ilona Stolmar reports on the fact that
Gabor Elek published in scm, without any permission, a private letter of Ilona
Stolmar, invading her privacy, moreover the letter she claims was obtained
by the US federal crime of breaking into a computer in her household. Who else
but an accomplice in the crime of breaking into a computer would mindlessly
handwave with false accusations, disregarding any harm that she inflicts on
moderate Jews loyal to Hungary?

(5) The frequency and seriousness of offenses against Hungarian Christianity
must be alarming to everyone. In fact, even in this list, when Minister of
Hungarian Protestant Church of San Francisco and Neighborhood Jeno
Katona published a political proclamation, he was descpicably attacked and
verbally abused in front of all of us -- and in spite of expressed demand to
remedy the offense, the offender did not even reveal its identity. When such
severe offenses are committed day by day, it is not only the right but the
duty of victims to contemplate, and QUESTION the identity (or lack of) the
offenders.

In article >,
Laszlo Horvath  > wrote:

I would also like to reflect on a couple of issues raised in
response although often unrelated to the Posting from Elek
Gabor.

I do take computer security seriously, and if someone has
committed a computer crime to obtain the letter  hen  I
think that should be iscovered and appropriate action taken.

I have seen NO evidence however (not even circumstantial)
that Elek Gabor would have been the hacker. He merely
published it. If I now go ahead and republish it would that
mean that I hacked?
Furthermore the account of what happened  according to Ms
Stolmar seems improbable as well. If the computer was indeed
a computer connected through a modem and used periodically
to access a University system than it does sound improbable
that that system would have been  hacked into. 

What eis ven more troublesome for me than Ilona Stolmar
publicly and openly accusing Gabr Elek without evidence is -
and this has unfortunately become common practive - washing
together unrelated events. She doesn't make any open
statements to link Jews to the church break-ins, but she
implicitly connects them. The same approach is used by
eg. Pellionisz - examples could be cited form any of his
postings to this newsgroup. What is troublesome about these
postings is not that what they are suggesting is untrue but
that the statements are not open to debate or discussions,
since if you ask on what basis they claim that the church
break ins (for which two yung people no who are t Jewish
admitted responsibility) they will say that they never did -
which is factually accurate. The question remains - do they
think that Jews are in any way responsible for these events
and if so why don't they say it openly - or do they think
that Jews are not responsible for these events and then why
connect them in any way at all? This btw is not unique to
this question or situation - unfortunately it happens all
the time. I cxan't help to think those who do it and
whenever  they do it have somet objective other  than and
inconsistant with open debate.
I think that for any  conversation or debate to take place,
for us to get anywhere ahead  we would have to stop
demonizing each other. Obviously we will not be able to
conduct a cultured productive debate as long as we can't
start from  a minimal common ground. If you think that your
counterparty is not trying to participate in the debate but
that he/she is trying to kill you or ridicule you you can;t
carry a meaningful conversation, and there is no point in
trying.
For those of you who are not after  carrying a conversation
who are not willing to listen, and who cannot accept that
others in this group are also wkriting from the same
position there is no communication possible. Thos who are
willing to accept at least that we are all in this because
we care about Hungary and care about the conversations we
are conducting - let's converse in a clear and open fashion,
let's throw ideas against ideas, reasons against reasons.
Let's not insinuate, but make statements, let's not libel
but raisee objections. Let's play by the rules or let's not
play at all. Let's give each other the benefit of the doubt
as long as they play by the rules.


Istvan