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alex

In article , Ben Clipboard  wrote:
We, members of the 14 December Co-ordination Committee and Lao Australians
are deeply concerned with the problems of economic and social development in
Laos.  Our intention to gather in front of the Embassy of Lao PDR in
Canberra is to protest the hydraulic dam projects in Laos.

The truth behind the dictatorial government’s propaganda to build up to six
hydraulic dams along the Nam Theun River was disclosed by Dr. Phairoth
Vongvirath, the Directory of Department No. 1 of the Foreign Affairs
Ministry and a permanent member of the Supreme People’s Congress of Lao PDR,
who sought political asylum in the USA in August 1995.  The truth of the
matter is that the intended hydraulic dams are not all needed by the Lao
people.

Dr. Phairoth Vongvirath disclosed that -
     1. Russian advisers suggested that the Lao Government borrow funds from
the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank and from various free world
financial institutions in order to build the dams.  After the money was
release the Lao PDR bought steel wire and other construction materials from
Russia in order to indirectly pay its debt of over $US 700m.  Russia would
also provide its engineers to manage the construction of the dams.

    2. Following the issues of the plans, the dictatorial authority took it
as a pretext and arranged for their comrades to immediately commence
extensive logging.  At this moment, in the area of the proposed site for the
dam, General Cheng Sayavong, head of the mountainous development project,
has ordered the logging and use of helicopters to transport logs from the
site.


"The Sun" - A weekly Thai magazine, October 5, 1995 issue reported that:
=Nam Theun Dam II, when completed would flood up to 360 km2 of leveled land
of Na Kai District.  It would also destroy a third of the ancient pine and
hardwood forests, home to many animals nearing extinction such as tigers,
elephants, white seagulls and the new world animal species discovered just
two years ago, the Sao La  or Vu Qang Ox

=Reports from the International Federation of the Preservation of the
Environments suggests that ‘...all help prevent the destruction of the
animal and plant species and the priceless environments in this heritage
area’.

=That the construction of Nam Theun Dam II would require an enormous sum of
money, up to $US 670 m and would be 100% foreign owned as teh Lao PDR was
not able to contribute. The management of the construction of the dams as
well as the sale of the electricity would be transferred to the Lao PDR "The
Nation", a Thai newspaper referred to the World Bank’s reports that the Nam
Theun Dam II Project has met with serious technical, legal, economic, social
and environmental problems.

Hence, we Lao Australian taxpayers whose taxes have contributed to the
Australain aid to Lao PDR appeal for the Australian Aid Program to carefully
consider the conditions for its contribution to the construction of the
above mentioned dam and other aid programs to Laos.

We take this opportunity to condemn the dictatorial power managing group in
Laos for misappropriating foreign financial assistance, whilst doing little
to further the economic and social development of Laos.

LAO COMMUNITIES IN AUSTRALIA
2nd December, 1995

On Jan 14, 1996 23:34:11 in article <Re: Change of ethnic composition in
Romania (1)>, 'Anthony Malczanek >' wrote: 
 
>It is unfit  to say that some census statistics can PROVE a political  
>act, but it could be a good start for debate. 
 
As Mark Twain said "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." ;-) 
 
>CHANGES IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC SITUATION IN ROMANIA 
>=============================================== 
> 
>The census between 1910-1992 and their comparative data reflect the  
>gradual decrease in number of the minorities as compared to the entire  
>population (see already posted Appendix). 
 
Assimilation of minorities, by itself, is not a bad thing.  The question is
how much of the assimilation is voluntary, and how much is forced. 
Voluntary assmilation is good (after all, individual freedom is good). 
Forced assmilation is bad (after all, lack of individual freedom is bad). 
Therefore, showing that one population group is growing quicker than
another really doesn't advance the debate (even if we accept your unstated
(and unproved) premisse that Hungarians and Romanians, on average, have
exactly the same number of children, at exactly the same age). 
 
>- the introduction of the Romanian administration and later as a  
>result of the agrarian reform, within six years, 197,035      
>Hungarians immigrated from Transylvania to Hungary;  
 
I've previously addressed this. 
 
>- economic reasons (industrial development was withheld, the      
>economic crisis) as well as discriminative laws (language and  
>so-called qualification examinations) brought about the mass      
>dismissal of Hungarian clerks, workers and teachers. This         
>resulted in a new immigration wave;    
 
Yes and no.  After unification, Transylvania's Romanian population was no
longer going to undergo forced Magyarization.  The teachers, clerks and
workers who had been involved in Magyarization were no longer needed.  Of
course they were going to be dismissed.  Asking that they be kept on makes
about as much sence as asking Mandela to keep on the enforcers of
apartheid's race laws. 
 
>- the settling down of Romanian farmers (after the 1921 
>Agrarian Reform), clerks and teachers (after the 1924      
>Educational Law) on Hungarian majority-population areas broke      
>the ethnic unity on these territories;    
 
Land reform was not aimed at the Hungarians.  For example, my Romanian
great grandfather ended up lossing 96% of his net worth in the land reform;
the only reason that he retained 4% was because he'd been honest when
paying his taxes. 
 
>- the Citizenship Law (1924) and the study of the origin and social  
>background as well as the analysis of names stipulated      
>by the primary education law brought about the decrease of        
>the statistic proportion of the Hungarian population. 
 
Are we supposed to be sorry because there are fewer "statistical
Hungarians"?  I've met many Hungarians in my life, but I've never met a
"statistical Hungarian". 
 
> These        
>aimed at the arbitrary assimilation of this ethnic minority. 
 
 
How does the elimination of "statistical Hungarians" from the census show
any interest in "the arbitrary assimilation" of any ethnic group? 
 
>After the communist takeover: 
 
Well, one thing is for sure: I'm not going to defend the communists. 
 
Alexander

In Georgian 33 is OTSDATSAMETI

Norwegian: Jeg elsker deg

-Magnus

> From: Csaba Zoltani (ASHPC/CTD) >
 
 


> "Alexander N. Bossy" > on 17 Jan 96
writes:
  
> >                                             60% of the population
> >on the territory transfered back to Hungary under the terms of the
> >Vienna diktat was also ethnic Romanian. Consequently, it most
certainly
> >was not "far more based on ethnic self-determination". 
>Alexander
> 
> Would you care to document your population statistics? Also, the term
> "diktat" is out of place since the Romanian government agreed to, and
> indeed was a signatory to the agreement returning the predominantly,
> though not exclusively, Hungarian populated areas of Erdely to
> Hungary.
  
> CSABA K. ZOLTANI
 
 ============
 Well, for Hungarians Viena was not a "diktat" but for Romanians it was. 
They either had to sign or fight Germany along with Hungary.

Alexander should know better since his grandfather Raoul Bossy was a
direct participant at the "negotiations" or lack of them in Vienna 1940, he
was at the time the Romanian ambasador to Germany.  His personal
notes are available at the Hoover Institude at Stanford University (in
Romanian)

You want statistics ?  I am sure somebody has some, somewhere to
show the numbers. :-)

Adrian Cosoroaba

 wrote:
: Egy szegedi FORUMozo minapi cikkeben foglaltakat en is eloszor valami
: kacsanak ereztem, de mivel mar tobben is visszaigazoltak annak
: valodisagat, nem tudom mire velni a dolgot.  Errol van szo:
: 
: >1/ Felveteli kirekesztok c. cikkbol: "... A muvelodesi es Kozoktatasi 
: >Miniszterium altal kiadott 1996-os Felsooktatasi Felveteli Tajekoztato 288. 
: >oldalan talalhato a Modern Uzleti Tudomanyok Foiskolajanak ismertetese... A 
: >felveteli kovetelmenyek kozott szerepel, hogy a Budapesten jelentkezoknek a 
: >JUDISZTIKAI TANTARGYAK VIZSGAJAN (kiemeles tolem, S.J.) is meg kell 
: >felelniuk..." 
: 
: Amint utolag kiderult, a cikk bekuldoje csak a "JUDISZTIKAI"-bol
: felejtett ki egy A-t a D utan.
:

I don't know what keyboard you are using, but on qwerty and qwertz
keyboards the top right hand corner of the "d" key and the bottom
left hand corner of the "r" key almost touch. If I were a betting
man, I would put my money on "JURISZTIKAI" as the intended word, if
the word is simply mistyped. 

d.A.

Alexander N. Bossy > wrote:
> 
>Every society breeds at least some reactionaries.  Hungary isn't unusual in
>doing so.  The question, however, is whether the views of the reactionaries
>is or is not embraced by the population at large, and whether or not it is
>government policy. 

Reactionary?  What a familiar word it is to those growing up in communist
countries!  The enemies of that system were routinely branded as
reactionaries and I was proud to be among them.  What's your problem
with reactionaries, Alexander?  I never took you for a communist
sympathizer.  But from the way you write about reactionaries, puts you
in the same camp with them. 

Long live the reactionaries!

Joe
(a.k.a. "Reakci Joska")

In > "Zoli Fekete,
keeper of hungarian-faq" > writes:
>Besides being almost coherent, this post also had a rather 
>strangely contorted path - anyone cared to check if it was for real?

On Wed Jan 10 1996  (Vladimir Fomin) vomited:
|Aren't Hungarian people ashamed that a rabid moron portrays himself as
|the FAQ keeper in their newsgroup????
|Zoli Fekete's mother was a Gypsy whore (Roma=Romanian) and his father was
|the truckload of Russian soldiers who raped her in 1956.
|Actually, Russian soldiers were too squeamish. It was uzbek soldiers
|that raped Zoli Feteke's mother.
|I urge all honest and honorable hungarians on internet to write a 
|real FAQ and to retire Zoli Kekete where it belongs.
|<http://users.aol.com/antisas/oasash.html>;

On Thu Jan 11 1996 Hermes1 > caught the same virus:
$Mighty tough talk from a bag of feces that hails from  //users.AOL.com !
$Geez, go hide under that Uzbek outhouse, a few soft juicy craps on that
$bonehead of yours ought to persuade you to bail out of AOL. Or at least
$shut the fuck up about it. Nah, I think you like the taste of that Uzbek
$turd, skatofagia I may be able to dig, but why do you have to regurgitate
$it on the Net and guard it with such ferocity? I am sure Zoli is not in
$the mood of taking it away from you. You can all the refuse that ever 
$came out of a Uzbek asshole, since God defecated them upon this world,
$think all of it for your cretinous AOL self. There is not even a catch,
$except that from now on you are to confine your ravings amongst the
$sand niggers on soc.culture.uzbek. Still, a vast improvement over AOL.
$m. cristian

  A GRADE REPORT BY THE FLAME USERS COMMITTEE OF KEELERESCU 
  =========================================================

                              Vladimir Fomin   Mark Cristian

Origanality:                       D                D-
(Fomin coined the word Kekete
Cristian coined skatofagia)

Wit                                F                F
(There simply wasn't any)

Literacy                           F                F
(overabundance of the vocabulary
and imagery used by adolescents)

Humour                             F                F
(Immature insults without any
redeeming :-) about them)

Overall Value of Postings         $0.02           $0.01

Comment:
Both posts were crude. Although this, in itself, is insufficient grounds
for complaint, when it is without wit, humour or any other redeeming
element explicit or implicit in the post, then it is virtually valueless.

The Flame Users Committee of Keelerescu find Fomin and Cristian guilty
of squandering bandwidth and littering the infobahn with non-combustibles
and non-recycable trash.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

> The word "szeder" means some kind of berry, I think
>blackberry,

This wont help in your name search but "szeder" means mulberry.

Joe Szalai

In Social Culture Pakistan, one should try to improve the image of 
Pakistan rather than talking rubbish.


Thanks

This is a test too. á,é,í,ó,ú,ü  ö  Á É Í Ó Ú Ü Ö újságíró

Hello Newsreaders out there.

I'd just like to inform you guys that I've created a WEB page for the 
phrase "I Love You" in many languages.  This is not to say that I'm 
takin' someone else's work for my own credit.  I don't really know who 
wrote it.  As according to my WEB page, I've credited the work to an 
anonymous person.  If someone wants to claim it as their work, please 
email me and I'll see to it that the work is properly credited.  My "I 
Love You" URL is http://rohan.sdsu.edu/home/thongkha/chant/iluvyou.html 

							-chant

Alexander N. Bossy > wrote:
> 
>Assimilation of minorities, by itself, is not a bad thing.  The question is
>how much of the assimilation is voluntary, and how much is forced. 
>Voluntary assmilation is good (after all, individual freedom is good). 
>Forced assmilation is bad (after all, lack of individual freedom is bad). 
>Therefore, showing that one population group is growing quicker than
>another really doesn't advance the debate (even if we accept your unstated
>(and unproved) premisse that Hungarians and Romanians, on average, have
>exactly the same number of children, at exactly the same age). 

I don't know if you realize this, Alexander, but your posts are a gold
mine for Hungarian counterarguments.  Like the following, for instance.

The kind of statement you made about natural assimilation is usually
flat-out denied when Hungarians say that to explain the same thing you
are trying to.  Hungarians, as we all know, forcibly assimilate others,
"magyarize".  They can't possibly do that the "old fashined way":
naturally.  That's the sole domain of minorities doing it to Magyars.
I wonder why would those uppity Magyars even consider to assimilate into
those oppressed minorities.  Were they out of their mind?

Joe

On 18 Jan 1996  wrote:

> doing the same, among them Martin Luther King, in order to prove that
> your blanket opposition of clergymen in politics is not universally
> shared.

I never said that Rev, Tokes was the only busybody in the universe !

> From this the conclusion is inescapable: pastors and
> preachers, such as MLK and Tokes better stay away from politics or else.
> That "else" being a well deserved bullet.

That "else" being a bullet, is only your dream. No doubt the 'martirdom' of
Tokes may be amongst a Magyar revisionist's sweatest desires. What a 
political bonanza, to blame it on the dirty, fundamentalist olahs.

I am merely pointing out that one cannot have it both ways. Of course others
have done it, but that puts them in a different category. They may be still
clergymen, but they are also politicians. 

Now the thrust of the initial inquiry was 'what to I have against Bishop
Tokes.  To that I answered that, consequently to his endevours, I decline
to give him the consideration of a Bishop. Instead, I give him the 
consideration a politician gets. A politician whose politics I don't like.

As such he is open to the criticism, opposition and ridicule that other
public figures in the area custumarily get.

m. cristian

In article >,  (T. Michae
l Lutas) writes:
|> In article >, ++ ADRIAN++
|> > wrote:
|> 
|> > My point dear Eva (lovely name by the way) was that in a ethnically MIXED
|> > village even the ROMANIANS had vey poor knowledge of their own language 
|> > because there had been no books or classes in ROMANIAN before 1918 and 
|> > even their names were partly Hungarian.(:-))
|> 
|> It is an interesting comparison between the Hungarian administration of
|> Transylvania did to romanians pre-1918 (no books or classes in Romanian
|> at all)

Turns out that in the village the mail was talking about there had been no 
Romanians (see Eva's posting). In fact there was a similar situation in many 
parts of Transylvania, where there had been absolutely no Romanians, but
with the new masters, Romanian teachers (and others, like priests and state
employees were moved in).

On the other hand where did you get you "no books or classes in Romanian at all
"
information? How much do you know about the history of education in
Transylvania, especially the Romanian one?

 and what horrors the present romanian administration is accused
|> of doing (permitting hungarian instruction but with limits and with 
|> adequate resources). 

adequate? - you make me laugh...

|> 
|> Makes you think.

Me maybe, not you though ;-)

|> 
|> DB

Why, isn't this Alexander's "signature"?

Matyas
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Borneo es Celebesz magyar volt,es magyar lesz!
Now that's a new one, or am I missing something...

Hi everybody!

I'm back to the keyboard...

In article >,  (Alex
ander N. Bossy) writes:
|> On Jan 11, 1996 23:38:51 in article <Change of ethnic composition in
|> Romania (1)>, 'Anthony Malczanek >' wrote: 
|>  
|> >After WWI,  Romania regardless the type of government, had a constant 
|> >policy of forced assimilation toward any ethnic minority and especially 
|> >against Hungarians. 
|> > 
|> >The below presented official figures  prove the assertion: 
|>  
|> Anthony, your figures don't support your assertion.  If you look at them
|> carefully, you'll see that the Hungarian population actually increased
|> during all but two periods this century.  While that certainly doesn't
|> prove that there were no problems, it as certainly doesn't prove that there
|> was a constant policy of forced assimilation. 

Hi Alexander!

While the figures by themselves don't prove assimilation, they definitely
mirror that something unnatural has been goin on. Let's just take the two ends:


|> >Year  Total(1,000)    Romanians   %    Hungarians   %     Others   % 
|> > 
|> >1910  5.263             2.830  53.8        1.664  31.6      769  14.6 
|>  
[...]
|>  
|> >1992  7.710             5.671  73.6        1.599  20.7      440   5.7 
|>  

During these 82 years the number of the Romanian population doubled (what was
the average birth rate during this time?) while that of the Hungarians remained
about the same... Immigartion of Hungarians wasn't a general phenomenon as it
was in the case of Germans and Jews (who have been actually sold by the 
Romanian government) except for the early 20's. But even then a great part of
those leaving Transylvania were the "amerikasok" (that is those who left for
America). And that was a phenomenon pretty general for all (especially eastern
and middle) european counties, even for Romania (which, by the way, doesn't
seem to show in the numbers).

All in one, the figures (if they are for real - and I'd like Anthony to 
give references to support them) show that there have been some unnatural pheno
mena
about the population dynamics of the minorities in Romania. And although this
is no proof by itself, knowing what things were like in the last fourty years,
I dare state that discrimination and forced assimilation are parts of the 
reasons behind these phenomena.

Matyas


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Your e-mail reply to this message WILL be *automatically* ANONYMIZED.
Please, report inappropriate use to                
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>regarding  (Vladimir Fomin)
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     
     there is a quite informative article about the neanderthal species 
     (homo neanderthalensis) in the latest issue of national geographic 
     (january 1996).    
     
     most anthropologists believe it is a long_ago extinct branch of 
     hominids - or is it?
     
     -cristian

Well, I consider myself an inhabitant of this group, although I rarely
post new articles.  I'm a hungarian-canadian.
I'm pretty sure this newsgroup is read by lots of people in Hungary,
but somehow lots of postings come from the US.
Perhaps a large portion of Hungarian readers are not fluent enough in 
English to post meaningful messages without embarrasment.
Also, there are only a limited number of topics that necessitate a 
somewhat tedious posting procedure just to be read outside their 
local bulletin board.
Well, that's how I see it, no offence meant to anybody
Bye now...


                    Karesz

"using \"SKY\"" > wrote:



 
On 30 Dec 1995, Cory wrote:
 
: I think that was very nice of you to inform Andrea Cocito of the
"Language of Love" I'm going to print that for myself.  You never know when you
might need it. Thanks, Jennifer Ferris Blacksburg VA

 " I love you" : kocham cie (Polish)
 " I love you" : seni seviyorum <Turkish)
 " I love you" : Ich liebe dich (German}
 " I love you" : Je t'aime (Francias)
 " I love you" : Ti amo (Italiano)
 " I love you" : I love you (English :)
 " I love you" : Wo Ai Ni (Chinese)
 " I love you" : Saya cinta pada mu (Malay)
 " I love you" : Eu amo-te (Portuguese, Portugal)

Dorin Taranul > wrote:
>
>To what end, Joe? You've already got your mind made up!

And we all know how open minded you are, right?

Joe

On Jan 13, 1996 04:25:59 in article <Re: Bela Kun>,
 ()' wrote: 
 
>Alexander N. Bossy > wrote: 
 
>>  Also, the Austrians certainly were 
>>to be numbered among the critics.  After all, they were in favor of
setting 
>>up a more federal system in the Dual Monarchy, while the Hungarian 
>>government would not accept any diminution of its power over its 
>>minority-majority. 
> 
>I suppose to Hungarians such suggestions from Austria were looked with 
>suspicion; as just another ploy to play the "Divide et impera" game. 
 
That may have been part of it, but there was also a complete unwillingness
to accept local autonomy, since it would invariably reduce Hungary's
importants.  (Who'd want to learn such a difficult, language, etc., etc...)
 Presumably, the Austrians didn't fear that the other peoples of the empire
would stop learning German.... 
 
>>And, that is precisely why it is counter-productive for you to keep 
>>defending the forced Magyarization of yesteryear.  If you'd publicly 
>>repudiat it, it would help those of us who are arguing against forced 
>>Romanianization today.  
> 
>Oh, I have no problem with publicly repudiating the Hungarian 
>nationality policies during the Monarchy period 
 
Good!  This is progress. 
 
> with the proviso that 
>while bad, it was not significantly worse than the policy of other 
>countries of the time. 
 
Well, one can't get everything. 
 
>>Oh, come on.  There was not a single Romanian-language state high school
in 
>>all of Transylvania under Hungarian rule.  That is hardly an excessive 
>>charge. 
> 
>That is true, but how prevalent were the public schools then vs. the 
>parochial schools, anyway? 
 
I don't have a breakdown between public and parochial schools in
Transylvania.  However, the fact that ONLY parochial schools taught in
Romanian would tend to encourage Romanian parents to send their children to
parochial schools, artifically inflating their number. 
 
>  Besides, Hungary just barely regained her 
>(semi-)independence from Austria, which also meant a long backlog on 
>her own national agenda. 
 
In 1867.  How many generations does it take to catch up on one's "long
backlog"?  Couldn't some time have been devoted to the majority of the
population, which wasn't Magyar?  Did so much time have to be devoted to
increasing the amount of time that had to be devoted to Hungarian-language
instruction? 
 
>>Ah, that is something quite different.  Unfortunately, local 
>>self-determination doesn't seem to have any international support, as the

>>Serbs have learned.  
> 
>No, the problem with the Serbs is that they don't want to live in 
>minority status.  They have this idea that wherever even one Serb lives, 
>that area must be part of Serbia.  Of course I am exaggerating this to 
>make the point.  I hope you've got it.   
 
How about the Krainina?  It was 80 or 90% Serb-populated before the war
broke out.  Large sections of Bosnia had/have Serb majorities.  At least
parts of Slavonia had a Serb majority.  And, Croatia's historic treatment
of minorities (Serbs especially) has been far worse than anything that
either Romanians or Hungarians have practiced. 
 
>>Romanians, the fundamental problem that the ethnic Hungarians have isn't 
>>one of ethnic Romanian intolerance, but rather the problem of a 
>>non-democratic regime's willingness to use ethnic differences in a divide

>>and rule strategy.  Consequently, I consider all Romanians, of whatever 
>>ethnicity, as still under the (neo-) communist yoke. :-(  
> 
>That may be so, but hearing the latest poll results, Iliescu is not about 
>to be voted out soon.  In a situation like that, Romanians unhappy with 
>the Iliescu maffia should welcome the possible return of King Michael, in
my 
>opinion, who seems to be the only person right now to take on the 
>current regime in a popularity contest and restore their dignity the way 
>Juan Carlos did it in the post-Franco Spain. 
>Well, that's just my opinion. 
 
It's my opinion too, and, given Iliescu's actions, it is his greatest fear.
 My he live his nightmare. 
 
>> Consequently, calling Bessarabia Moldavia 
>>makes about as much sense as calling Maine Massachusetts, or Vermont New 
>>York.  
> 
>That's why I was wondering why you started talking about Bessarabia in 
>answering my comment about Moldova. 
 
Because the bulk of Moldavia remains part of Romania.  Only one province
(Bessarabia) is incorporated in the "Republic of Moldova". 
 
Alexander

On Jan 12, 1996 06:41:02 in article <Re: Bela Kun>, 
(EvaB459762)' wrote: 
 
 
>People never learn, I am afraid. I just wish that this kind of xenophobic 
>nationalism (Romanian as well as Hungarian and any other) would disappear 
>from the face of the earth. 
 
Hi Eva: 
 
At the risk of seeming completely, irresponsibly, optimistic, let me
suggest that xenophobia can disappear.  The reconciliation between Germany
and France after WWII is the most important example.  I don't see any
reason why a similar reconciliation can't take place between Romanian and
Hungary - though it will invariably take a few generations. 
 
Alexander

Hi,
itt van egy magyar e-mail u´jsa´g bejelento: cime:


cikkbeku:lde´s:

Pannon Jozsi, vajon miert van az hogy a liberalisok ha hibat vetenek
annak beismerese es bocsanatkeres helyett a buntelen Pazmany Peter
Katolikus Egyetemet akarjak keresztre fesziteni?

Mint a San Francisco Obolkornyeki magyarok altal vezetett, Californiaban
bejegyzett "Magyar-Amerikai Alapitvany a Pazmany Peter Katolikus 
Egyetemert" USA allampolgarok szamara adoalapbol leirhato adomanyokat
gyujto szervezet igazgatosaganak tisztsegviseloje megerosithetem,
hogy (1994-ben irt, Dr. Gal Ferenc Rektor altal alairt) hivatalos 
tajekoztatojuk szerint az Egyetem Bolcsesz Kara tokeletesen explicit 
modon leszogezi, hogy [vertabim idezem]: "A Pazmany Peter Katolikus 
Egyetem Bolcseszettudomanyi Kara minden ratermett hallgatot folvesz, 
vallasi vagy vilagnezeti elkotelezettsegre valo tekintet nelkul" 
[tajekoztato, 27.old.]

A papnevelde es katolikus hittantarok kepzese celjara szolgalo 
"Hittudomanyi Kar" gondolom nem temaja annak hogy vajon a Katolikus
Egyhaz intezmenyei "kirekesztok"-e. Egyreszt a Katolikus Egyhaz (mint 
ismeretes Jezus Krisztus ota) barkit befogad aki oda akar tartozni,
masreszt az mindenki altal elfogadott hogy barmely egyhaz 
"professzionalis" tisztsegviselojenek kepzesehez (igy Katolikus Papok
es Hittantanarok kepzesehez is) az egyhazhoz valo tartozas termeszetes 
feltetel legyen. Igy a HITTUDOMANYI KAR eloirja hogy a katolikus 
papneveldebe vagy katolikus hittantanarnak jelentkezo "Krisztushivo" 
legyen (mint ahogy rabbi sem lehet nem-zsido!), de TENY, HOGY A BOLCSESZ 
ES UJABBAN INDULT JOGI KARA FELVETELNEL  *NEM ALLIT SEMMIFELE VALLASI 
VAGY VILAGNEZETI FELTETELT*. (Az egyik levelezo altal emlitett papi 
"ajanlas" [az sem mindig "papi", lehet a "megszentelt elet 
intezmenyeinek tagjainal az intezmeny sajat eloljaroja"] CSAKIS A
HITTUDOMANYI SZAKRA VALO JELENTKEZESKOR SZUKSEGES.) A San Francisco 
Obolkornyeki magyarok vezetesevel mukodo Alapitvany nem gyujtott volna 
mintegy $50,000-t a Pazmany Egyetemnek ha az "Kirekesztes" vadjaval
lenne illetheto.  

A LIBERALIS KIREKESZTES ujabb ocsmany peldaja viszont, hogy pl. a 
Pazmany Egyetem "keresztre feszitesere" a HIX oly modon ad (konkretan 
bizonyitott) lehetoseget, hogy ugyanakkor KIREKESZTI (kicenzurazza) a 
"vitabol" azokat (a szemely szerint is, nevszerint megragalmazott 
szemelyeket) akik a tokeletesen artatlan Pazmany Egyetemet kepesek 
lennenek ott megfelelokeppen megvedeni.

(Az elozo cikkrol lemaradt alairasom -bar ez egy tegnap
bekuldott cikkemrol az e-mail cimbol azonosithato:
Dr. Pellionisz Andras)

Greetings, 


           I have been a "lurker" of sorts in this newsgroup for a while
and curiousity just overwhelmed me. I've often wondered a couple of things
about the inhabitants of this group;

€ Are you hungarian-americans (in general)?
€ Do you live in the U.S or Hungary?

         Those are the pre-liminaries.   (smile). It strikes me that the
common Hungarian is not a particularly happy person a this time, either
economically or socially. As I am planning a stay for a couple of years in
Budapest come May, I'll have more time to investigate......

         Quite frankly, when all this started in 1989, I had thought the
face of Hungary would be much improved by 1996.  Does anyone think it has?


                              Sincerely, 

                                       G. Hemingway

Keri Imre Gonczot vedo irasaban tobb tevedes van.

Kezdjuk ott hogy az egyik legdemokratikusabbnak elismert orszagban,
itt az USA-ban az elnok szemelyi gyongeseget (karakterenek hibait),
pl. hogy Gennifer Flowers-el 12 evig volt viszonya Hillary-val
valo hazassaga alatt, a demokratikus (szabad) sajto teljes nyiltsaggal
tamadta. Nem lehet demokratikus az a sajto, amelyben vezeto politikusok
karakterhibai tabu temak!

Masodszor, teved Keri abban, hogy Goncz-ot a valasztok hoztak ki
Koztarsasagi Elnoknek, vagy hogy a valasztok tobbsege voksolt volna ra
akarmikor is. Goncz az 1990-es KISEBBSEGI part, az SZDSZ embere, es
az a "paktum" hozta hatalomba, melyet Antallnak azert kellett megkotnie,
mert a liberalisok maris kivontak $600 milliot M.o.-rol, jelezven hogy
megbuktatjak Antallt ha nem pariroz az SZDSZ-nek. (Elso honapjaiban,
raadasul pont halalos betegsegenek elso mutete alatt az illegalisan
eroszakkal veghezvitt "taxisblokaddal" majdnem sikerult is megtenniuk,
majd tobbek kozt a belpolitikaba valo kulso beavatkozassal szep rendesen
ki is csinaltak az egesz Antall-rendszert).  Ha egy nep altal soha meg nem
valasztott Koztarsasagi Elnok hazudik, a nepnek demokraciakban teljes joga
megvan ra hogy kifutyulje, es hogy hazugsagait a (nyomaiban meg reszben
szabad) magyar sajto "Demokrata" c. hetilapja kiszerkessze. Hasonlokeppen
teljes joga van a "hazorzo kutya" szerepet jatszo sajtonak, hogy a Gonczrol
kiszivargott ertesuleseket, hogy bortonevei alatt besugo ("Patkany") volt,
"investigative reporting"-gal kivizsgalja. Ha Goncz nem volt Patkany,
megilleti hogy neverol e becstelenseg letorlodjek, mig ha Patkany volt,
menjen a fenebe.

Hillary Clintont pl. ugyancsak nem a nep valasztotta pl. olyan tevekenysegekre
hogy az USA gazdasaganak mintegy 1/3-at kitevo egeszsegugyet a szocializmus
elvei szerint onhatalmulag atformalja. Ha viszont onhatalmulag ilyen szerepet
jatszik, az USA sajto ugy latja, joguk van olyan erosen nekimenni, melyhez
kepest a magyar sajto es politikum harmatos ibolya. Igy pl. eppen a
napokban nevezte William Safire (igen jol ismert jurnaliszta, a New York
Times egyik kolumnistaja is), Hillary Clintont "szuletett hazudozo"-nak
(congenital liar).

Szerintem Keri Imre jobban tenne, ha nem "ujabb es ujabb" tabu-temakat
igyekezne a magyar sajtora es politikumra raeroltetni, hanem EPPEN A
DEMOKRACIA ERDEKEBEN inkabb a sajtoszabadsag otthon "veszelyeztetett
allatfajanak" vedelmere kelne.

On Jan 12, 1996 06:12:17 in article <Re: Bela Kun>, 
(EvaB459762)' wrote: 
 
>>>country to join once her neo-communist regime falls.  
>> 
>> 
>My, my. You are an optimist. The trend seems to be exactly the opposite. 
>Just look around in the former Soviet republics and in Eastern Europe. I 
>just read somewhere that out of the 28 countries involved 24 have 
>former/or not so former Communist governments. Just look at Poland, 
>Hungary, and not Russia. 
 
Hi Eva: 
 
Actually, I wouldn't count Poland or Hungary in the same breath as the rest
of the ex-Soviet block.  While they do have reformed communists in power,
they are REFORMED.  Countries like Romania would be significantly more
democratic and pleasant places to live in if they had REFORMED communists,
rather than NEO-communists.  Also, Russia, Ukraine, etc. have been
communist during the life of almost every citizen.  Consequently, there
transition back to capitalism will be very much harder process than it is
for those countries only communized at the end of the Second World War. 
 
But, regardless of whether the communists are reformed or neo, they no
longer have the kind of totalitarian system supporting them.  In a country
like Romania, there is now an oppposition (or should we say there are now
many oppositions).  That is a very major improvement over the situation
before the Christmas revolution, when there hardly was a dissident
movement.  Because there is an opposition, there are now non-communists to
take power.  And, eventually, they will, either democratically (thanks to
western and popular pressure), or as a result of a second revolution. 
 
Alexander 
 
>Eva Balogh

Syed Mehdi > wrote:

>In Social Culture Pakistan, one should try to improve the image of 
>Pakistan rather than talking rubbish.

So why don't you start by not crossposting and cluttering the
newsgroups with this nonsense!



Maan M. Hamze

I hope this is not too late.

Ro'mai is the biggest site III. (district) Szentendrei u't 189, along the 
Danube north to the centre.  Phone: (+36-1) 168-6260. There are 40 bungalows,
open all year.

In the Buda Hills there are three sites:

Ha'rshegyi (Ha'rshegyi u't 7, phone 115-1482) is said to be the best.  They 
have 80 bungalows, open April to October, accessible by bus 22 terminating at 
Moszkva te'r.

Zugligeti Niche (Zugligeti u't 101, phone 156-8641) is closest to the city (bus
No 158 to Moszkva te'r).  Open April-October, no bungalows, few caravan sites
only.  

Tu~nde'rhegyi (II. Szilasi ut 8, no phone in my guidebook) has bungalows, open
all year.  Bus No. 28 from Moszkva te'r. 

I booked a site in the Zugligeti for my now father in law, by phone, from 
Australia, last February in the Zugligeti: all worked out well, they got the 
caravan site with power connection that they wanted, liked the place, the
people in the office could speak English, the restaurant is pretty reasonable.

George Antony