Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 103
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-10-13
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Gypsies (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Collective Guilt and Ethnic Cleansing in Czechoslov (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: "Gypsy" detail (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
4 Multiple Ancestry (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
5 QUACK (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
6 Outside Threats (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Outside Threats (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Multiple Ancestry (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: chauvenistic quacks (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: chauvenistic quacks (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
11 Gosztonyi; Gypsies (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Outside Threats (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Outside Threats (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Outside Threats (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
15 How to lie BIG with statistics (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Outside Threats (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
17 RED MERCURY (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Roma in CR and Hungary (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
19 RED MERCURY (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
20 Gosztonyi; Gypsies (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
21 Political persecutions (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
22 Teaching of Hungarian history (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
23 Electoral law (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
24 ONLINE Orszaghaz kulonszam (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: Hungarian national day of mourning (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (Was: Re: (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Bravo to d.a. for his remarks othe "multiple ancestry" of today's Hungary,
culturally, gastronomically, "racially."  In fact, if I am not mistaken,
it was no less a personage than Istva1n a kira1ly who remarked that a nation
is strong only to the extent that it is composed of a multiplicity of ethnic
groups.  He was referring, of course, to the Hungary of *his* day, and we
must assume that already on the morning after the honfglala1s Hungary was
a "mixed society"--Long live the melting pot!

Udv,
Be1la
+ - Re: Collective Guilt and Ethnic Cleansing in Czechoslov (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Csaba Zoltani wrote on Tue, 4 Oct 1994 12:14:49 EDT
> Subject: Collective Guilt and Ethnic Cleansing in CSSR

Csaba, please, can you write your contributions under
correct subject?
I don't know about any CSSR in that time.
Thanks.

Jozef Simek
+ - Re: "Gypsy" detail (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tom Sulyok wrote:

>In the bad old days (pre 1989) there was a special detail in the Budapest
>Police named the "Gypsy detail". Its members were not Romas, but they
>spoke the language and knew the culture. Of course, they were disbanded
>because they were not politically correct. I read an interview about
>them, and one officer stated:
>When a Gypsy says "I am innocent", he merely  means that "I have not
>killed a man."

I think I read the same interview and once I quoted from it in the
Hungarian language HIX FORUM.  Needless to say, I was immediately
attacked by the PC crowd for making such "generalizations" about the
Gypsies.  (I was actually paraphrasing what that police officer told the
reporter.)

Some of the interesting things the officer mentioned were new to me.
For instance, he mentioned that it was fairly easy to figure out from
the scene of a burglary that it was committed by Gypsies.  Why?
Because the Gypsies don't seem to be satisfied with just taking the
valuables and then leave; they had a tendency to totally devastate the
place before they left it, so nobody could enjoy what ever they left
behind them.  This included leaving human excrement all over.

The other characteristic this officer mentioned was the apparent
impulsiveness of Gypsies.  So, for instance, if a Gypsy saw something he
liked, he got an overwhelming urge to get it righ away.  To work and
save for it does not seem to be in their book.  That's the root of a lot
of their necklace snatching on the street, or display window breaking at
night.

Interestingly enough, this officer seemed to have quite a good rapport
with a lot of Gypsies, including their respect.  This in turn helped him
to learn a lot about the Gypsy culture not generally known to outsiders.
For instance, when it comes to sexual ethics, their moral code seems to
be far stricter than most people might think.

Well, enough of this chauvinistic quackery!

Joe Pannon
+ - Multiple Ancestry (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Bravo to d.a. for his remarks othe "multiple ancestry" of today's Hungary,
>culturally, gastronomically, "racially."  In fact, if I am not mistaken,
>it was no less a personage than Istva1n a kira1ly who remarked that a nation
>is strong only to the extent that it is composed of a multiplicity of ethnic
>groups.  He was referring, of course, to the Hungary of *his* day, and we
>must assume that already on the morning after the honfglala1s Hungary was
>a "mixed society"--Long live the melting pot!


I also believe it was Charles de Gaulle who once said of France, (sorry if I
am misquoting),"How can one expect to retain order in a country that has
over 300 different types of cheese?"

..marc
+ - QUACK (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Fair comments!  I simply did not put much thought into my words before
  >writing them.  I agree that all perspectives are important to such
  >discussions, and, really, I don't feel that most contributions to
  >the gypsy discussion have been chauvenistic.  I sit corrected.
  >                                        Jennifer

Its mostly just the use of the word "Quack" that really bothers me.  It is a
word that should be used sparingly, and should be used mostly towards people
who consider themselves experts (an X-Spurt is a drip under pressure).

BTW, can anyone confirm my story about Mayor Koch and Ceaucescu??

Also, I remember hearing about the removal of Lenin's statue in Prague.
Supposedly the next day it was replaced by a billboard showing mick jagger's
lips.  Is this true?

Sorry, but I am really fascinated with obscure historical tidbits..marc
+ - Outside Threats (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Paul, you mentioned the Gypsie culture (or the Gypsie counterculture perhaps)
as a threat to Hungary's Eurropean culture.  If I understood you correctly.
However, when I walked through the streets of Budapest or walk home from the
Paris Metro, I can't help but notice that the european culture is being
threatened by a much larger and more powerful outside force than that of
the Gypsies (who are not really outsiders anyway).  I live next to this old
pedestrian street in Paris called Rue Daguerre.  It is full of outdoor markets
and sprinkled with a few cafes and bakeries.  A very beautiful traditional
European atmosphere.  However two years ago this image has been destroyed.
Now when I walk down the street I am facing the large golden arches of a
McDonalds restaurant in front of me.  At the end of the street it lies,an
unavoidable eyesore.  As far as I am concerned this street has lost much of
its charm.  It is no longer European, nor French.  The same is happening all
over Europe, especially in Budapest.  As far as I am concerned American pop
culture is the biggest threat to the uniquness of European traditions.  In
fact I would even say that most of what we know as traditional European
culture has already disappeared.  Most of the people in France my age listen
to American pop music, watch Arnold Swarzanegger films, eat at McDo, listen
to Rap, smoke hash, and so on..  There is hardly any distinction between a
young frenchman and a young american.  We have become homogenized, the same
is starting to happen to Hungary.  Welcome to McCulture!...marc
+ - Re: Outside Threats (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Marc writes:

"a spectre is haunting Europe".

OK, so those weren't his exact words; but I'd like to ask how
Europeans should counter this threat?

--Greg
+ - Re: Multiple Ancestry (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Marc quotes Charles de Gaulle--
>How can one expect to retain order ina country that has over 300 different
>types of cheese?"

My memory (which may be defectiver) has "maintain order" and "200 varieties"
of cheese.  Otherwise, we are in agreement.  However, I do not think de Gaulle
had ethnic/cultural multicplicity in mind, but simply the [then] French pen-
chant for endless ideological fragmentation.

But, as the Talmud says famously, "eleh v'eleh divrei Elohim Chaim"--i.e.,
even these contrasting ideas are truth.

Cheers,
Be1la
+ - Re: chauvenistic quacks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Paul:  Perhaps you did not see my reply which fully acknowledged the
inappropriateness of my former comment.  In fact, I have had my own
unpleasant experiences with gypsies, not the least of which was an
attempted robbery of my friends camera in broad daylight by two heavily
intoxicated gypsies in Debrecen.  Sorry for the thoughtless namecalling.
                                -Jennifer
+ - Re: chauvenistic quacks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jennifer Thomas writes about her unpleasant experience with "two heavily
drunken gypsies in Debrecen."

My own experiences in Debrecen were quite different where Gypsies are
concerned.  During two month-long visits in January and August 1993 I
saw many Gypsy men and women on the main street.  What struck me most
forcefully was their physical handsomeness/beauty, their fastidiously
clean clothes (more "peasant" looking than those of ethnic Hungarians),
and their stikingly different appearence from most of the Hungarians on
the street (more olive skin, thinner builds, and the like).  Never did
I observe or even hear about the kinds of behaviors noted by Jennifer and
others on the list.  I have however encountered drunken Hungarians, Finns,
Danes, and Americans, with unpleasant effects.

Perhaps, as my late father-in-law used to say, "Jumala loomaaed triipuline"--
i.e., "there are all sorts of animals in God's zoo."

Cheers,
Be1la
+ - Gosztonyi; Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Somebody posted statistics about the number of executions in different
political eras in Hungary. What Gosztonyi and anybody using his statistics is
doing is manipulating with numbers in a most disgusting manner, for they are
ignoring the number of years over which these executions occurred. If I
remember right, Kadar was in power for a longer period of time than any of the
others mentioned - and so it is quite natural that more executions would occur
during the Kadar era than some preceding it. Also, mentioning the Hungarian
victims of WWII in a footnote only is absolutely unacceptable. Those were
executions, too, executions of the worst kind, and Szalasi and Horthy were
murderers.


As to the discussion about Gypsy culture, Paul's idea of inferior culture
changing the Gypsy culture are quite sad. Think about the HUngarian culture.
Hungarians came to Europe from Asia with their own culture. Then the """Holy"""
Stephen the First "converted" them to Christianity - in other words he forced
European culture on them with the help of the Germans. He ordered his soldiers
to cut the body of Koppany, the leader of the group who wanted to stick to
tradition, in four parts to show the people how beneficial it is to convert to
Christianity. (I personally always liked the character of Koppany more than
that of Stephen the Worst) His method certainly worked, Hungarians became "good
Christians". BUt look at Hungarians now, a thousand years later. Hungarians
have been looking for their identity ever since, and haven't found it.
Hungarian roots are nothing but a poor imitation of Western culture, with
McDonald's and rock'n'roll, and everything from the West is cherished as
something that came straight from Heaven. Gypsy culture is not the problem. If
some Gypsies teach their kids to steal, that's because they have no respect for
the current structure of society. Forced conversion to "Hungarian" culture will
not solve the problem. The solution probably lies in showing the Gypsy group
that they can succeed and fit in in this society without losing their culture.
+ - Re: Outside Threats (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Marc wrote:

>Paul, you mentioned the Gypsie culture (or the Gypsie counterculture perhaps)
>as a threat to Hungary's Eurropean culture.  If I understood you correctly.
>However, when I walked through the streets of Budapest or walk home from the
>Paris Metro, I can't help but notice that the european culture is being
>threatened by a much larger and more powerful outside force than that of
>the Gypsies (who are not really outsiders anyway).  I live next to this old
>pedestrian street in Paris called Rue Daguerre.  It is full of outdoor markets
>and sprinkled with a few cafes and bakeries.  A very beautiful traditional
>European atmosphere.  However two years ago this image has been destroyed.
>Now when I walk down the street I am facing the large golden arches of a
>McDonalds restaurant in front of me.  At the end of the street it lies,an
>unavoidable eyesore.  As far as I am concerned this street has lost much of
>its charm.  It is no longer European, nor French.  The same is happening all
>over Europe, especially in Budapest.  As far as I am concerned American pop
>culture is the biggest threat to the uniquness of European traditions.  In
>fact I would even say that most of what we know as traditional European
>culture has already disappeared.  Most of the people in France my age listen
>to American pop music, watch Arnold Swarzanegger films, eat at McDo, listen
>to Rap, smoke hash, and so on..  There is hardly any distinction between a
>young frenchman and a young american.  We have become homogenized, the same
>is starting to happen to Hungary.  Welcome to McCulture!...marc

I AGREE!!!!   OH BOY, DO I AGREE!!!!  I cannot tell you how happy I am that
Euro Disney park is doing poorly.  During my February trip to Morway and
Germany, I was grossed-out when I saw at least 4 McDonald's places in Oslo,
and several American fast-food places in Munich (Domino's, McDonald's, local
hamburger shops, Van Halen and rap music on people's radios, etc).

When I was in grad school, I met several french students, who would get
together 3-4 times a month for a family-style, regular sit-down dinner.
They said they needed this since the dinner gathering was how French families
kept close.  One woman even said, even when her sister and her would spend
most of the meal kicking each other, and teasing each other, they at least
interacted each day, and that was important.  I think in the US we are
deprived by not keeping that tradition.  Now we see the same thing happen
in Europe, and spreading to Asia, and elsewhere - how tragic, cultures
entered around corporate images, and maximum efficiency.

Paul
+ - Re: Outside Threats (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

H. MARC picks the HUNGARY list to tell us about his Parisian woes:

> As far as I am concerned American pop culture is the biggest threat to
> the uniquness of European traditions.  In fact I would even say that
> most of what we know as traditional European culture has already
> disappeared.  Most of the people in France my age listen to American
> pop music, watch Arnold Swarzanegger films, eat at McDo, listen to Rap,
> smoke hash, and so on..  There is hardly any distinction between a
> young frenchman and a young american.

As a properly conditioned American, I am quite ready to feel guilt and
remorse over all of these things, except for the hash.  The French did
not need those uncouth Americans to introduce them to the stuff.  Hash
existed in abundance in France for quite a while.  Perhaps you might
want to reread any reasonable biography of Baudelaire, for a start.
In fact, as a denizen of Rue Daguerre you may be familiar with Daguerre
and his strange doings involving silver nitrate fumes... all in the
name of progress, of course.

Otherwise, you are dead right about the pernicious American influences
destroying the pristine culture of Europe.  Why, even Hungarians hardly
ever bother washing their Herz salami, like their venerable ancestors
used to do.

-----
Gabor Fencsik

+ - Re: Outside Threats (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Fencsik writes:

> ...you are dead right about the pernicious American influences
> destroying the pristine culture of Europe.

Well, it's just fair play at the continent level.  It was only a few
hundred years ago that Europe was destroying America's native cultures...


--Greg
+ - How to lie BIG with statistics (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

It appears from C. K. Zolta1ni's posting quoting Gosztonyi that the most
desirable historical period (lowest number of executions) in the past 150
years of Hungary was under Ferenc Sza1lasi. Ah, those "vigilantes" and
"atrocities" -- really, you can't expect a respectable leader of a country
to control these, now can you?  Such matters are obviously best relegated to
footnotes. Had Ka1da1r relied on armed thugs instead of packing kangoroo
courts that gave a thin veneer of legality to the bloodbath, he would be, as
far as Gosztonyi's presentation of data is concerned, clean as a whistle.

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: Outside Threats (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Greg wrote:

>> ...you are dead right about the pernicious American influences
>> destroying the pristine culture of Europe.
>
>Well, it's just fair play at the continent level.  It was only a few
>hundred years ago that Europe was destroying America's native cultures...
>
>--Greg


Good point - unfortunately we ex-Europeans were not as willing to share the
land of the Native Peoples as they were to share it with us.  As the story
goes, the Indians were very compassionate towards the Europeans arriving
in the 1600's, and taught them how to farm the land.  Within 200 years,
the Indians were being sent to reservations (Cherokee Trail of Tears to
Oklahoma, etc.)  That is a tragedy that should be remedied with all
urgency, as there still are Indians wanting to live in traditional ways, if
the oil and mining companies would just stop stealing more of their land.
It is a difficult thing to argue in favor of dismantling the US, even if
it would be the right thing to do historically, but living up to the
agreements we made to them to respect their autonomy on their lands is the
minimum we must do.  Educate those who wish to live in the US lifestyle,
and respect those who wish to live as Indians always have.

Paul
+ - RED MERCURY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello,
I'm currently researching on nuclear proliferation and nuclear smuggling
from the former Soviet Union.
I read in *The Washington Post* (March 7, 1992):
"Hyngary's main newspaper, Nepszabadsag, specutaled that Red Mercury might
be a detonating substance for plutonium bombs and reported that several
recent murders in Vienna might be linked to its illegal trafficking."
I'd greatly appreciate if anyone could help me find this article and direct
me toward additional sources.
Thanks,
Fernando Orlandi
Fernando Orlandi
Via Tonelli, 13
I-38056 Levico Terme (Tn)
Italy
Phone: +39-461-701238
Fax: +39-461-702137
Email: 
+ - Re: Roma in CR and Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Roma in CR and Hungary
From: George Antony, 
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 09:09:15 +1000
In article > George Antony,
 writes:

>I think Hungary is very close to West Germany in facing her past.

if this is true, then it is a sorry indictment of hungary.

>My knowledge of history texts is limited to those under the past regime,
but
>the theme of past misdeeds was hammered hard, complete with details of
>atricities committed by the Hungarian Army in Yugoslavia and the role of
>Hungarians in the Endloesung.  The phrase "Hitler's last ally" was used
to refer
>to Hungary often,


of course hungary was not unique in its status as hitler's last ally.
croatia was there too.


>of course to a great extent to show the Horthy regime in the
>
>worst possible light.
>In all, this education cum brainwashing had positive effects:

why was it "brainwashing"? there seems to be ample evidence to support
the version of history you have just recounted. the encyclopaedia
britannica agrees with it, and i presume that that is an acceptable first
source.

unfortunately the federal republic of germany's history courses were not
quite as frank, with the history of das dritte reich being given very
summmary treatment.

d.a.
+ - RED MERCURY (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello,
I'm currently researching on nuclear proliferation and nuclear smuggling
from the former Soviet Union.
I read in *The Washington Post* (March 7, 1992):
"Hungary's main newspaper, Nepszabadsag, speculated thet Red Mercury might
be a detonating substance for plutonium bombs and reported that several
recent murders in Vienna might be linked to its illegal trafficking."
I'd greatly appreciate if you could help me to find this article and direct
me toward additional Hungarian sources on the so-called Red Mercury.
Sincerely,
F. Orlandi
************************
Fernando Orlandi
Via Tonelli, 13
I-38056 Levico Terme (Tn)
Italy
Phone: +39-461-701238
Fax: +39-461-702137
Email: 
+ - Gosztonyi; Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Somebody posted statistics about the number of executions in different
political eras in Hungary. What Gosztonyi and anybody using his statistics is
doing is manipulating with numbers in a most disgusting manner, for they are
ignoring the number of years over which these executions occurred. If I
remember right, Kadar was in power for a longer period of time than any of the
others mentioned - and so it is quite natural that more executions would occur
during the Kadar era than some preceding it. Also, mentioning the Hungarian
victims of WWII in a footnote only is absolutely unacceptable. Those were
executions, too, executions of the worst kind, and Szalasi and Horthy were
murderers.


As to the discussion about Gypsy culture, Paul's idea of inferior culture
changing the Gypsy culture are quite sad. Think about the HUngarian culture.
Hungarians came to Europe from Asia with their own culture. Then the """Holy"""
Stephen the First "converted" them to Christianity - in other words he forced
European culture on them with the help of the Germans. He ordered his soldiers
to cut the body of Koppany, the leader of the group who wanted to stick to
tradition, in four parts to show the people how beneficial it is to convert to
Christianity. (I personally always liked the character of Koppany more than
that of Stephen the Worst) His method certainly worked, Hungarians became "good
Christians". BUt look at Hungarians now, a thousand years later. Hungarians
have been looking for their identity ever since, and haven't found it.
Hungarian roots are nothing but a poor imitation of Western culture, with
McDonald's and rock'n'roll, and everything from the West is cherished as
something that came straight from Heaven. Gypsy culture is not the problem. If
some Gypsies teach their kids to steal, that's because they have no respect for
the current structure of society. Forced conversion to "Hungarian" culture will
not solve the problem. The solution probably lies in showing the Gypsy group
that they can succeed and fit in in this society without losing their culture.



                                        Adam Galambos
+ - Political persecutions (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I want to thank Csaba Zoltani for his summary of Peter Gosztonyi's recently
published book on the history of political retribution in Hungary from 1848
on. I found his statistics most interesting in the light that there had been
a huge discussion on the Forum about different periods of modern Hungarian
history and which of these periods were "the most shameful." A young man made
the startling announcement that the two most shameful periods were the Horthy
regime (in its entirety) and Antall/Boross coalition government's last four
years in office. (See the effectiveness of teaching history in the last forty
odd years!) Another young man announced that the evaluation of the 1956
Revolution for him and his friends has about as much weight and significance
as the decision of purchasing this or that detergent! I would like to know
what the Hungarian educational system is planning to do about educating the
country's citizens in a responsible manner about Hungary's recent history.
Eva Balogh
+ - Teaching of Hungarian history (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hugh Agnew's hypothesis concerning teaching modern Hungarian history is
correct. Let me quote him:

>since, as George suggested, there was a
>strong ideological motive behind the critical picture of the previous
>decades,
>isn't that a little more like the way East Germany dealt with its past?  If
>the East German state could somehow magically become the inheritor of all
the
>progressive traditions of the German nation, including Luther and especially
>Thomas Muntzer, was the depiction of Hungarian history under the "old
regime"
>also a way of blaming it all on the ruling classes, the gentry, the
>discredited
>class enemies, with of course the subtext that it was "their" fault and thus
>not something requiring much soul-searching or understanding, or "mastering"
>by those being taught?

Historians until very recently took exactly that position; i.e., the ruling
classes alone were responsible for all the ills of the interwar period from
irredentism to the alliance with Germany while the innocent population stood
by helplessly. Of course, this is all nonsense. All Hungarians took Trianon
very, very hard and wanted to have the borders changed in a peaceful manner.
Also, if it was a choice between Germany and the Soviet Union, I venture to
guess, the Hungarian population would have rather sided with the former than
the latter.

That kind of depiction of the Horthy regime made a real impression on those
who studied modern Hungarian history after 1949 and, I am afraid, as a result
they have a somewhat distorted view of the period. Eva Balogh
+ - Electoral law (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have been away from home for a whole week and prior to that I got myself
involved in a huge discussion about 1956 on the Forum--so, no time to write
to this list.

About voting on Hungarian elections I agree with Joe Pannon: it wouldn't make
a great deal a difference. Most likely too few people would avail themselves
to vote, but it would have been a nice gesture. But this is not what I am
griping about when it comes to some of the details of the law. My chief
complaint that there is no such thing as absentee ballots. That is, if you
happen to be on some urgent business in Vienna or Frankfurt or New York,
tough luck--you won't be able to vote, period. I really think this is an
oversight which must be remedied. Hungarians today travel a great deal.

Even more bizarre if you vote at one place in the first round, you must vote
at the same place in the second round. So, for example, Gyula Horn simply
didn't vote in the first round of the elections because he happened to be
hospitalized away from Budapest at the time. Eva Balogh
+ - ONLINE Orszaghaz kulonszam (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

MET-------------Magyar Elektronikus To zsde------------------MET
=-=-=ELECTRONIC JOURNAL  HU ISSN 1216-0229 =-=-=-= copyright 1994.
Miguel Angel Martinez az Europa Tanacs Parlamenti Kozgyulesenek
Elnoke latogatast tett.
Megbeszelesei soran ket kerdeskor kapott kiemelt szerepet
Oroszorszag beengedese es a Nemzeti kisebbsegi jogok az Europa Tancsban
>>Jovore nyilik az Europai Ifjusagi Kozpont Budapesten amely Europaban a
masodik, de egyenrangu az elsovel annak mindenben duplikatja.
Bovebb informacioert forduljon bizalommal a levelezesi rovatunkhoz.

Rovataink: Tozsdei (MET-TOZS),
    Orszghazi tudositasok magyar (MET-OHAZ), angol nyelven MET-PARL
    Megrendeles lemondas   cimen
> ====================================================================
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+ - Re: Hungarian national day of mourning (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Greg's letter:

> Tibor Asztalos writes:
>
> >  There was an official celebration in Budapest.
> >
> >  The list of those who did not take part:
> >                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >  Arpad Goncz the President
> >
> >  Gyula Horn the PM
> >
> >  Zoltan Gal the chairman of the parliament

ANd Greg ask:

> Did this break tradition?  Either of the post-89 or post-WWI type?

  Here and now I can tell you only what I remember. But it is never sure.
  As I remember last year the PM and the chairman of the parliament attended
the official celebration. To be sure I have to go first to the library.

 Tibor
+ - Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (Was: Re: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Greg asks--
>
> >Do other European states allow non-resident citizens to vote?
>


ibokor answers:

> switzerland and germany do
>

  In April there was a similar debate in the FORUM (in Hungarian).
  Somebody wrote about Italy. The Italians who were living in Canada voted.

  Tibor

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