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1 Need info about Sailing on Lake Balaton, Hungary (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
2 I need help finding a relative (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
3 Test (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: 80-YEAR SECRECY STAMP (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: 80-YEAR SECRECY STAMP (mind)  47 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: 80-YEAR SECRECY STAMP (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: translation help!! (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Air plane tickets to New York for sale (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Kovago Joseph elhunyt (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: CHICAGO:Restaurant (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Kovago Joseph elhunyt (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
12 Mein Kampf (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
14 Kossuth Statue in New York (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
15 The Anatomy of a Historical Conflict: (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind)  240 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Dead end road to NATO and EU (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Need info about Sailing on Lake Balaton, Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I will be in Hungary for business this spring and
summer.  I would like to take a 1 or 2 week
wation and do some sailing on Lake Balaton.  
However the sketchy information that I have,
states that I will need a "A type" licence and 
"an international" licence to hire out a sail
boat over 5.5 meters.  Cna anyone help me out with 
these requirements and how these licences may be
obtained through resiprocity in the United States ?

Also can anyone help me with a good place for 
a sail boat rental on Lake Balaton ?   Thanks

Richard Lewis
+ - I need help finding a relative (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am originally from Romania.  I live in Massachusetts USA now.  My
grandfather, Antal Body was born in Budapest.  I am looking for my cousin,
Richard Szabo, son of Medi who emigrated with his wife Marika to Belgium
in the seventies.  They had two daughters and a son.  He should be 46 now.
 Would anyone out there know of his current whereabouts or care to do some
research?  Information about Medi, his mother would be also appreciated. 
Please respond at .  Thanks.
Simona Georgescu
+ - Test (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello magyarok!
+ - Re: 80-YEAR SECRECY STAMP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  (CLARY Olivi
er) writes:
>Here is the explanation from Népszabadság, 1996.X.10.:

Most látom, hogy milyen karikatúra volt másnap az újságban:
cím: "Jogérzék"
(a rajzon: három rendőr, a jegyzeteit nézegeti egy idősebb rendőr az asztalnál,
közepén ül egy rosszul borotvált alak, bilinccsel a kezén, szemébe a lámpa:)
- Mert akkor én most mehetnék is haza: nem lehetne ezt a jegyzőkönyvet 80
  évre titkosítani?


-- Olivier Clary   mailto:   http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1326/
Me'te'o-France/CNRM/Groupe Mode'lisation pour Assimiln. et Pre'vision, Toulouse
Aussi loin qu'est l'orient de l'occident, Il met loin de moi mes fautes --Ps103
Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy, / E'ppen hozza'm valo' vagy!  (Lakodalmas -Te'ka e.)
+ - Re: 80-YEAR SECRECY STAMP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

| >
| >There is your  media attention from the supposedly
| >socialist. controlled press.
| >Another note, I think that this COULD be legitimately in the
| >natiional security interets of Hungary not to disclose the
| >information on a) how and 2) how much oil we buy especially
| >since most fo this comes from the russians and 3) most of
| >this comes through arrangements made with the russians for
| >their debt to us that was negotiated when they pulled out.
| >I am not sure it's legit, but I could see an effect on
| >national security.
| >
| >Istvan
| I see your point, Istvan, but I am underwhelmed by the argument that
| such trade information is a strategic secret that must be sealed for 80
| years, no less!!!  Typically such time sensetive secrets protect
| individuals during their life time.  In the US it is usually 30 yaers,
| although some things like the Kennedy assasination files are sealed for
| 100 years, I think.

I have no justification for the duration. Justifying it
would mean that I have to know what it is I don't know. And
then I could tell you , but as you know I'd have to shoot
you ;)
I am not even sure that sealing it away is legit. I think it
could be though, especially because it could all have to
with the russian pullout and what wasn egotiated there, some
or all of which could have effects on national security
aside from the fact that energy, especially in an energy
poor country as Hungary    could be strategically crucial itself.
| If the information is in fact strategic and would do irreparable harm
| to Hungary, so be it.  If it shields living persons from investigation
| and possible criminal prosecution or political backlash, then I think
| it is wrong.  

Agreed 100%.
| By the way:  who is supervising the classification?  Is Nikolits acting
| purely on his own accord?

I think that;s a good question. I though that a
parliamentray comittee that actually has parity oversees his

+ - Re: 80-YEAR SECRECY STAMP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  writes:
>[...] Can anybody guess just what
>might justify such secrecy with regards to a controversial *business*
>deal?  I thought such classification was meant for national security
>related issues.

Here is the explanation from Népszabadság, 1996.X.10.:
|Nikolits István levélben válaszolt az Országyűlés
|olajgatebizottságának azokra a kérdéseire, amelyekre
|meghallgatásakor nem tudott elégséges információkkal szolgálni.
|Levelének tartalmát 80 évig államtitoknak nyilvánította.
|Döntésével kapcsolatban akkor elmondta és ezt hétfőn, a
|parlament plenáris ülésén napirend előtti felszólalásban is
|megerősítette: a titokvédelmi törvény mellékleteként megjelent
|titokköri jegyzék egyértelműen meghatározza, mely
|információkat kell bizalmasan kezelni. A nemzetbiztonsági
|szolgálatok olajgate-tel összefüggésbe hozható értesülései is ebbe
|a kategóriába tartoznak, ezért azok államtitkoknak minősülnek.
|Emlékeztetett: a polgári titkosszolgálatok az energiaszektort mint
|stratégiai ágazatot a világ minden országában fokozott
|figyelemmel kísérik, sőt a nemzetbiztonsági törvény ezt
|kifejezetten elő is írja. Szerinte ő mint titokgazda megalapozottan
|dönthetett a stratégiai ágazatok ellenőrzése során szerzett adatok
|80 évre történő titkosításáról.

So he says the energy sector, as a strategic branch, is considered with
special attention by secret services everywhere in the world, and data
gathered while controlling strategic branches must be kept secret.
One really wonders what are these secret figures: how much they depend
on Russia, how much wood Józsi bácsi uses in his kályha, or what?...
-- Olivier Clary   mailto:   http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1326/
Me'te'o-France/CNRM/Groupe Mode'lisation pour Assimiln. et Pre'vision, Toulouse
Aussi loin qu'est l'orient de l'occident, Il met loin de moi mes fautes --Ps103
Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy, / E'ppen hozza'm valo' vagy!  (Lakodalmas -Te'ka e.)
+ - Re: translation help!! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  
>In article >, aheringer > 
>>In article >,  
>>>Nem unatkozik, reggelt'öl estig jön-megy, t'argyal, lapkiad'okba j'ar.
>>>Rengeteg dolga van, nincs egyetlen szabad perce sem.
>>>S/he is not bored, comes and goes from dawn to dusk, visits newspaper 
>>houses.  S/he is very busy and hasn't got a free moment.
>This is pretty good, though I'd take an issue with the "newspaper
>houses"; I think it should say "newspaper publishers".  The "dawn to
>dask" phrase sound good in English, though a more literal translation
>would only say "from morning to evening", in other words: all day.
>Just my two cents worth.

You are wright, Joe, it should be publishing houses, but the wod just 
didn't come to me.  Incidentally, I have tried to reply you two days ago, 
but the list was dead as well as the Hungary list, which is still almost 
dead.  Agnes
+ - Re: Air plane tickets to New York for sale (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>                    Air plane tickets to New York for sale
>   From: Tibor Nagygyörgy >
>   Reply to: 
>   Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 21:42:03 +0100
>   Organization: Biggeorge's Enterprises Ltd
>   Newsgroups:
>          soc.culture.magyar
>   Followup to: newsgroup(s)
>Kalandorok, utazgatók figyelem !
>2 db retúr New York-i (Delta Airlines) repülőjegy eladó !
>1997. szeptemberig bármikor felhasználható. Kiutazástól számított 1 éven
>belül lehet felhasználni a visszaútra a jegyet.
>Ár: az általad prezentált legalacsonyabb ár bármelyik utazási irodától
>mínusz HÚSZ (20) %
>Ha érdekel küldj e-mailt, vagy hívj: 0630418424
>Nagygyörgy Tibor
>Travellers Attention !!!!
>Two return air plane tickets to New York (Budapest-New York-Budapest)for
>Can be used any time before September, 1997.
>Return part of the ticket can be used within 12 months of first
>departure's date. (Open ticket)
>Price: The lowest price from travel agencies you present, minus 20%.
>If interested please send an e-mail or call:
>0630418424 (from Hungary)
>#3630418424 (from abroad)
>Tibor Nagygyörgy

	Tibor, international flight eseten utlevellel
	kell bizonyitani ki vagy, igy nem lehet mas
	nevere kitoltott jegyet hasznalni!
+ - Re: Kovago Joseph elhunyt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: In article >, 
  AND Books > wrote:
: >ma olvasom Chgo Trib jelenteset hogy Ko"va'go Joseph 83ev Linwood NJben 
: >elhunyt. szabadsagharcos volt... beke poraira!

: Nem o volt Bpest polgarmestere?

igen, 1945ben. 48ban e'letre ite'lte'k. 6 e'v utan feltamadt s ujra
BP polga'rmester lett 56ban... kisfoldpart vezetoje volt, menekult NYCbe 
57ben.. BPen temetik...
+ - Re: CHICAGO:Restaurant (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  (
JuliannaA) wrote:
>Does anyone know of a decent Hungarian restaurant in the Chicago area?
>I have a craving for palacsinta and csirke paprikash.
>Reply here, or e-mail to 

The most authentic Hungarian restaurant in Chicago is called the Paprikash. 
Phone (773) 736-4949  The Chef's name is Bela.

Kenessey's on Belmont is Closed.

Kenesseys Cypress in Hinsdale (Ogden and 294) is a great restaurant but more 
Continental than Hungarian.  Although the painting on the halaszbasztsa (sp?) 
in the Budapest Banquet room is awsome.

Szathmary's is history.

           - Vili -
+ - Re: Kovago Joseph elhunyt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, AND Books > wrote:
>ma olvasom Chgo Trib jelenteset hogy Ko"va'go Joseph 83ev Linwood NJben 
>elhunyt. szabadsagharcos volt... beke poraira!

Nem o volt Bpest polgarmestere?

+ - Mein Kampf (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>a new translation of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf has decided to appeal the
>Budapest prosecutor general's 22 November suspension of retail sales of
>the book, Nepszabadsag reported. The publisher says that Mein Kampf,
>which was not legally available to anyone but researchers during the
>communist era, has historical value and should be available to readers.

Big deal! The book is available in any better library in the US and as
I understand, the English edition is also available in Budapest, at
Soros' Central European University bookstore.  So why shouldn't it be
available in Hungarian?  Who are these book burning busy bodies 
usurping themselves the right to tell other people what they may or may 
not read? I think they should be the ones banished, not the book.

+ - Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
(Didier Moens) wrote:

> On 6 Dec 1996 17:24:08 -0800, BeeJay > wrote:

> >Make that "will-be". There's also a steady flow of immigrants from the Far
> >East. For more information and statistics about immigration I refer to
> >the Website of the U.S. Dept. of Justice (http://www.usdoj.gov/).
> Yep. And I'll consult Mr. Fox if I want to start a chicken farm.

Ha! In the US the political pressure is on to reduce immigration, not to 
bemoan the lack of immigrants. Lower immigration numbers are so politically 
valuable that it is quite possible that the current Clinton administration 
is guilty of cooking the books to reduce the figure in the paperwork. This 
is a crime punishable by several years in prison. The idea that the 
Justice department is cooking the books the other way is ludicrous. 

I have helped several people over the years to get their papers legalized 
and to make successful claims of asylum. The US system is overclogged with 
immigrants of all types to the point where to get any decent service 
out of the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) you actually 
have to call halfway across the country to quiet border posts at the 
butt end of nowhere to actually get an intelligent human being on the 
phone to answer basic questions. The major centers are that overwhelmed. 

For those of us concerned with Romania (SCR is where the thread started) 
we would like to improve conditions to the point where a mass out 
migration is no longer the only sane option to an insane Romanian 
government. With the election of Prof. Constantinescu as president and 
the first non-communist dominated parliament since WW II we have 
taken the first steps. There are some in western Europe who see America 
as some evil monster to be bashed at every turn, unfortunately, this 
fashion seems to be spreading among a small number of my own co-ethnics. 
For shame! The steps we have made towards freedom wouldn't have been 
possible without America, they certainly were possible without the 
Netherlands (whose small help in NATO and other forums is still 
appreciated but, objectively, is not essential). 

I'm sort of glad that not every person in the world wants to go to 
America. That means that there is hope left in some other nations and 
the US is not the sole repository, merely the largest. 


The Romanian Political Pages               http://haven.ios.com/~dbrutus
Now available: The Romanian constitution in Romanian, an URL minder
Coming soon: A post-election edition
These posts are not official PNT-cd policy unless specifically marked as such.
+ - Kossuth Statue in New York (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can someone please tell me where the Kossuth Statue is in New York City?
Thank you very much.

Gary N. Deckant
Youngstown, Ohio
+ - The Anatomy of a Historical Conflict: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Highly reccommended reading

+ - Re: Antw: Navo is a political dwarf (was Re: Thanks Hu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (Ania Oleksik) wrote:

->On 8 Dec 1996 21:29:01 -0800, BeeJay > wrote:

->(Michel Couzijn wrote:)

->> I mean, a week ago or so somebody felt compelled to publish his grades in
->>soc.culture.netherlands, apparently to support his case

->He is also not the Dutch.

->>and now another one is asking me to make public my degree

->Even together we are still not the Dutch (though it IS a small
->country, I agree.)

->>as if that would change anything about the validity of my point? Degrees
->>don't matter in any discussion, just opinions. 

->Agreed. What makes you believe I determine the value of your post on
->the basis of your title (if any)? It is the other way around: I
->thought I could comment on your academic title on the basis of what
->you wrote. Perfectly legitimate, I would say. I hope the subject
->'academic title' is not taboo for you. I tells something (read this
->word again: SOMEthing) about how clever you are. PhD's cannot be
->bought for fifteen bucks, you know. But then again, there are lots of
->PhD's with silly thoughts and no feeling for cynicism. 
->Take me as an example.

Yeah, cool anotherone who makes publicity out of her stupid PhD.

->>Or are you also infected with that
->>typical calvinistic "holier-than-thou-attitude", that moral superiority that
->>almost everybody seems to embrace in Holland? 

->You must know quite a lot of Dutch people to make this generalization.

Statistical  proven.

->>I fear the day that I have to go there....


->So how do you know us 'so well'?
->I believe you may be pleasantly surprised here in The Netherlands.
->Nice country, nice people, we pay our international fees, we take up
->lots of migrants, poverty and harddrug addiction are extremely low,
->same as violent crimes. But we DO like a strong discussion from time
->to time.

->>> >Ahum, now be careful, because there's plenty of information on the Net
->>> >supporting my case. For a start I would advice you to go to the Website o
->>> >the U.S. Dept. of Justice (http://www.usdoj.gov/), and then select the
->>> >Immigration and Naturalization Service. You can trust that
->>> >information, believe me.

	 Mark Twain said once: "You have big lies and statistics"
->>> I doubt whether the information presented there (next time be more
->>> specific which information you refer to - the Imm. & Nat. Service
->>> presents quite a lot!) supports your case. The average number of
->>> immigrants allowed to the U.S. is 800.000 a year from 1993 to 1995,
->>                                    ^^^^^^^
->>Oh, that's funny. You forget to add that 500000 people a year (in
->>*addition* to the 800000 who were granted permanent residency) became
->>American citizens (many of them through marriage, which in the case of the
->>Netherlands does not guarantee citizenship, let alone permanent
->>residency; I've heard some really sad stories about that), and a 100000
->>refugees. Have to add though that many new citizens already have a Green

->That's why I asked you to select and present the data yourself if you
->use them as arguments. It helps to avoid misunderstandings. 

->>> they say, showing a sharp decrease by more than 20 %. The U.S. (9300
->>> km2) have 260 million inhabitants, which is a meagre 28 inhabitants
->>> per square km. To compare, The Netherlands (41.000 km2) have 15
->>> million inhabitants and live with 452 inhabitants per square km (16
->>> times more) and nevertheless take up 30.000 immigrants a year
->>                                       ^^^^^^
->>But how many of them will be guaranteed citizenship; how many refugees
->>does the Netherlands absorb?

It has nothing to do with the number of  inhabitants per square miles.
In the Sahara, they have 125* less inhabitants per square mile and
they don't have any immigration only emi.
It has to do with the outside conditions. The human parameters are
playing a crucial role.

->>Anyway, per 1000 inhabitants the Netherlands grant 2 persons permanent
->>residency per year, whereas the US is still granting 3 persons per 1000
->>permanent residency, about 50% more than the Netherlands. 

You cannot compare 2 total different economies, histories, etc with
each other.

->Three kinds of lies. Learn about them. Disraeli. 
->I said you should relate that number to the size of the country - not
->merely its number of inhabitants. Would you say that a 1000 km2
->country with 1000 inhabitants can absorb as many refugees as a 10.000
->km2 country with the same number (1000) of inhabitants? No. That's why
->I related it to the density of the population.

Wrong the density is not a reason. It's not total irrelevant. But look
to the third world countries, the population is moving to the cities. 
So they are moving where the density is the highest.

->statistic, agree, but not too hard to understand.
->With 452 people per km2, we're pretty filled up here. Physical
->borders, you see? Compare that to the U.S.

Wrong again. You are using statistics to back up your opinion.
But you have to use statistics to come to conclusions or opinions.

You are a manipulator.

->>You really only
->>achieve that with less stringent immigration requirements and thus the US
->>is more accessible. Don't you think?

->No I don't think so. See above argument. And what's more, the U.S. has
->a very different and highly relevant history: it is a melting pot of
->immigrants and thus has many familiary links with other parts of the
->world. That's why so many people are attracted to the U.S. as well:
->because their family is already there or has been there for a long
->time. You cannot do in 1996 as if this differenence in status quo of
->the years 1995 and before does not exist.

->>> (1993-1995). Would you still say that the U.S. is the most accessible
->>> country, related to size? 
->>                      ^^^^
->>Population density, you mean. As I show above, that depends on how you
->>calculate the rate of immigration. I do not include population density,
->>because I really wonder to what extend that influences the immigration
->>proces. What you say is that for what Holland can have, they do a good
->>job, but its immigration policy must be more stringent in order to keep
->>it that way. We're getting a little closer to what I mean here, by the

Pffffff. This is le népotisme du reasonnement personnel.
->>I would like to know from you how many applications for permanent
->>residency/citizenship the Netherlands receive per year (let's say 1995),
->>in order to find out what percentage of applicants really gets what they

->Now I really have better things to do. You asserted U.S. was the most
->accessible - you collect the proof. Relate it to density and see your
->proof melt as snow in the sunshine.

Pfff. that wasn't proof in neither ways.

->>> I have heard that Germany was even more
->>> accessible than The Netherlands, though I don't have precise numbers.
->>> My case is anyway to say that too many more people believe their
->>> country to be the most accessible in the world. 
->>Forget the Netherlands, when it comes to accessability.

->Why? I live here. I won't forget about MY COUNTRY (chest up high)
->And though the rules have become stricter in the past two years, and
->though the liberals (that is, RIGHT wing in Dutch politics) fight it
->with all their might, I still believe we allow comparable many
->immigrants access to our paradise under the sun... errr rain.

->>> >> >> >>The most americans are living in their
->>> >> >> >>self made dream of drugs and crime. 
->>> >> >> >
->>> >> >> >You shouldn't give yourself away this fast ...
->>> >> >> >Any other jokes you might have, ing. Jeroen? 
->>> >> >> 
->>> >> >> Inadequate reply. Jeroen may exaggerate, but his argument
->>> >> >> is valid that the U.S. has a VERY SERIOUS drug and poverty
->>> >> >> problem. Also when compared to countries without capitalism
->>> >> >> as its bible.
->>> >> >
->>> >> >Ahem, I personally think that Joe was responding to Van Dijk's
->>> >> >*exaggeration*.
->>> >> 
->>> >> I agree with you ! (hooray) But that is exactly my point: Joe
->>> >> addresses merely the exaggeration (I stated so) but not the argument
->>> >> itself. That's why I call his reply inadequate (I avoided the word
->>> >> 'cheap).
->>> >
->>> >Aha, but to what extend did he exaggerate? His generalizations were out
->>> >of the ordinary. I can understand an American citizen would feel insulted
->>> >by such crap, and I therefore understand that Joe reacted that way.
->>> Yes, and once an American citizen has recollected him/herself, he/she
->>> writes an adequate response. I am still waiting. The underlying
->>> argument (The U.S. have a serious drug and poverty problem) is still
->>> valid  The question was whether the U.S. is 'a good master to run to
->>Nobody claimed that the US did *not* have a drugs and crime problem, and
->>otherwise I really think you should take note of the fact that it was the
->>way Van Dijk posed his problem that pissed people off. 

->See above. In the course of argument, you have become more
->exaggerating regarding Van Dijk than Van Dijk ever was regarding the

->>> once Russia has become weaker as a protector of middle European
->>> countries' (we almost forgot about that, didn't we?) and Jeroen tried
->>> in his way to point out that the U.S. does not offer merely beds of
->>> roses and mountains of gold and that maybe the middle European
->>> countries should not unconditionally seek protection of the U.S. or
->>> look at the U.S. as a role model..
->>Middle European countries should do whatever they want to do. But frankly
->>I don't think it's wrong to seek protection under the NATO.

->Me neither ! We agree ! (open can of beer)

->>By the way, wasn't it the US that had to be called in to initiate a peace
->>proces in the Balkan??? 

->Acquiring peace in former Yugoslavia has been a very complex matter. I
->think it is a gross oversimplification to believe that it just took
->simple participation of the U.S. to make the peace process going. The
->U.S. simply threw in their weight (and I am happy that they did) but
->this is more a matter of size (and a single negotiator) than of
->quality. Anyway peace is still far, far away in former Yugoslavia.
->'Only' the bombing has stopped. Temporarily.

->>In other words, when it comes to security, there's not much else to look for
->>besides the US. Do you know any better alternative?

->Yes, call me naive, but I still believe in the possibility of a UN
->super police force. The U.S. can participate, of course, I would love
->them to, but they really should pay their contribution in time.

->Michel Couzijn
->Amsterdam, The Netherlands

God Almighty
+ - Re: Dead end road to NATO and EU (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Charles M. Vamossy > wrote:

>Unlike Romania, whose prospects to enter NATO and EU have brightened by
>Emil Constaninescu's friendly gestures toward Romania's Hungarian
>ethnic minority, Slovakia's political leadership  seems to be
>determined to cast off whatever goodwill and support they may have in
>the West.  It's sad... By trying to hurt the 600,000 Hungarian Slovaks
>they end up damaging the prospects for a decent life of millions of
>Slovaks. Like cutting off your nose to spite your face...

My feelings exactly!  What is especially ironic about this is that
between the Romanians and the Slovaks, I thought the Slovaks would be
easier to get along.  Mainly for reasons of history and similarity of
culture.  But politicians can make more difference, I guess.

Joe Pannon