In > Cluster User wrote:

> some comments about the turkish:
> sakIn (should be sakin - sa:kin), sahra, tekmil ciltlemek
> (from cilt - j^ild), kuvvet (from quwwa(t), however turkish
> kol - qol is relevant) are loanwords from arabic. nam,
> huysuzluk (from huy , xu:y) are loanwrods from persian.
> for ol- (to become, be) most turkic languages have bol-
> for o"ksu"rmek - o"g~u"rmek (to retch, vomit) would be more
> relevant. s^olpan is qIrgIz, but old turkish has c^olpan,
> for elma many dialects of turkish have alma.

Since this is still going around, I decided to try
making some corrections and offer some alternates,
replacements or what I thought to be better matches
myself...

But first I would like to make a point about the
above comments... The first word list had alrady
indicated "s^olpan" as "Kyrgyz Turk", what is the
point in reiterating it as "qIrgIz vs. old turkish"?

"Turkish" examples in the original list inluded
words from Anatolian Turkish, Old Turkish, Kirgiz
Turkish, Osmanli Turkish, Saka Turkish, Uygur Turkish,
Sakha Turkish, Teleut Turkish... Thus it was clear
that those examples represented the Turkish branch
(what came to be called Turkic branch) of Altaic
languages...

The original writer must have felt a certain need
to put the word "Turk" next to "Kyrgyz", in order
to keep it clear to the ones who may not know it,
that "Kirgiz" is a Turkish/Turkic language...

What exactly is your purpose to say "s^olpan is
qIrgIz, but old turkish has c^olpan"...? Are you
trying to drive the wedge (which seems to have been
intentionally created by the usage of the word
"Turkic" instead of "Turkish") deeper between Kirgiz
and other Turkish/Turkic languages...?

Anyway, since I don't know the other languages in
the list and wanted to keep this posting fron getting
too long, I limited my comments to similarities
between Sumerian and Turkish only... I would welcome
and appreciate any comments or corrections to mine...

>Sumerian:       bur 411,104 (to drill, to riddle with holes)
>Turkish:        burmak (to drill - verb)

    Comment:     The verb is "bur", no need for participle form
                 "burmak", without it the similarity is more clear

>Sumerian:       bar 74, 68/302 (family, village)
>Old Turkish:    balIq (city)

    Addition:    bag~rak (family, clan)

>Sumerian:       bur3 411,32 (livestock, four-legged animal, cow)
>Osmanli Turk:   buzaçI (two year-old livestock) 

    Comment:     buzag~I is the alternate [correct?] spelling
    Addition:    burçin (doe - female deer)
                 bug~ra, bug~u (camel)

>Sumerian:       bad 69,100 (to fall apart, to be fallen)
>Turkish:        patla (to burst)

    Addition:    bat (to sink, to collapse, to perish)

>Sumerian:       bad 152 8,4 (wall, stuffing)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    bit„ (it closes away - pertaining to arrows?)

>Sumerian:       gab 167,55/57a (to grasp, to get, to catch)
>Turkish:        kap (pot - recepticle, something that catches)

    Addition:    kab (verb: to catch, to grab, to snatch)

>Sumerian:       ab(-ba) 128,13a (father)
>Turkish:        aba (father)

>Sumerian:       s^ub 68,9 (to flatten)
>Sakha Turk:     s„bird„x (page, leaf)

>Sumerian:       gab 167,56 (copy, picture, duplicate)
>Turkish:        k„p (picture in dialect)

>Sumerian:       gib-i/=gig/446,3/4 (be sick, pain, illness)
>Turkish:        gebermek (to pass away)

    Addition:    kebe (to swell, [from which --> gebe-rmek])

>Sumerian:       gir11 152,19 (to stretch)
>Turkish:        germek (to tighten)

    Correction:  ger (means to stretch, rather than tighten)
    Addition:    kirti (wooden bridge)

>Sumerian:       sig 592, 10ff (tight, narrow)
>Turkish:        sIkI (tight)

    Addition:    sIg~ (to fit in a tight space, to shrink)
                 sIk  (to tighten, to press)

>Sumerian:       gig 456,43 (hatred, to hate)
>Old Turkish:    k„k (")

>Sumerian:       s^ag5 356,5/7 (be healthy, good, goodness, nice)
>Turkish:        sag^ (healthy)

>Sumerian:       sig7 351,6 (to live, to sit)
>Turkish:        sakIn (inhabitant)

    Correction:  this is a borrow word, not a Turkish one
    Addition:    sIg~  (to take shelter in)

>Sumerian:       gis^ 296,10 (man, master, sir, gentleman)
>Old Turkish:    iy„ (gentleman)

    Addition:    ki$i (person)

>Sumerian:       gal2 80,3 (to be)
>Turkish:        ol- (it is, it will be, it happens)

    Addition:    kal (to continue existance, to remain)

>Sumerian:       gur4 483,23 (to run, to flee)
>Turkish:        kuriye (fast movement?)

    Question:    can this be verified as a Turkish word?
    Addition:    kur ([+tul] to escape, to free onself from)
                 yu"ru" (to walk)

>Sumerian:       zag 332,43 (flatland, field)
>Turkish:        sahra- (steppe, land, plateau)

    Correction:  this is a borrow word, not a Turkish one
    Addition:    saya (pasture, field)

>Sumerian:       dug3 396,10/11 (good, healthy, optimal)
>Turkish:        tekmil (completion)

    Correction:  this is a borrow word, not a Turkish one
    Addition:    dog~ (to be born, to rise)
                 dog~+ru (straight, right, true, good)
                 dog~+ruk (zenith, highest point)
                 du"g~ (to close, to celebrate)
                 tu"k (whole, hair, feather)

>Sumerian:       dah 169,3/10 (one follows, by someone)
>Sakha Turk:     doçor (member, partner)

    Addition:    tak ([<-- dak?] append, follow)

>Sumerian:       kud 12,19 (city, hamlet)
>Old Turkish:    qadas^ (relative, relation, troop, brother)
                 
>Sumerian:       kad4 (to bind)
>Turkish:        kat- (weave)

    Addition:    kat  (to add, to harden)

>Sumerian:       bad3 152^8,7 (deathly ill, sickly)
>Old Turkish:    bed- (it weakens)

>Sumerian:       pa 295,11 (summit, peak)
>Turkish:        bas, (head)

>Sumerian:       bu 371,25 (to blow)
>Turkish:        pfle- (")

    Addition:    bag~Ir (chest, lungs, to yell)
                 bog~anak (wind)

>Sumerian:       zub 60^x,4 (to flow, rain)
>Uigur Turk:     c^ip-c^ip (onomatopaeia of dripping water - "drip-drip")

    Addition:    suv (water)

>Sumerian:       ki 461,21 (who)
>Turkish:        ki (")

>Sumerian:       kur2 60,34 (circle)
>Turkish:        kresel (spherical)

    Correction:  this is a borrow word, not a Turkish one

>Sumerian:       kas^ 211a,2 (urine)
>Turkish:        huysuzluk (bile)
>Old Turkish:    qas^an- (be urinating)

    Correction:  "huysuzluk" is a borrow word, not a Turkish one
    Comment:     ka$an - current spelling in Turkish

>Sumerian:       kud 536,4 (to throw, to place, to allow)
>Turkish:        koy- (")

>Sumerian:       s^ita 233,15/442,2 (to bind)
>Turkish:        ciltlemek (to bind)

    Correction:  this is a borrow word, not a Turkish one
    Addition:    çit (to bind, to join, to get entangled)

>Sumerian:       has^ 12,78 (be bending)
>Turkish:        kayma‡ (slant-eyed)

    Addition:    ka$ (eyebrow, arch)

>Sumerian:       hir 401,9 (picture)
>Turkish:        kertik (notch, gash, score)

>Sumerian:       has^ 12,70/73 (to cut, to split)
>Turkish:        kesmek (to cut)

>Sumerian:       uh 398,6/17 (to spew, to vomit)
>Turkish:        ”ksrmek (to cough)

    Addition:    o"g~+urmek (to make vomiting noise)
                 aksIr+mak (to sneeze)

>Sumerian:       sil(a) 12,117 (to split, to cut up)
>Teleut Turk:    s^IlI (it cuts)

>Sumerian:       sig 592,10/19 (small, little)
>Turkish:        -‡ak (diminutive suffix)

>Sumerian:       sag2 295,100a (to strike, to hit)
>Turkish:        ‡arpmak (to strike)

>Sumerian:       hus 565,58 (to drive)
>Osmanli Turk:   qos^u (wagon, coach)

    Addition:    ko$ (the verb means: to hitch, to ride, to run)

>Sumerian:       s^ag 384,118/9 (to sigh, a sigh)
>Teleut Turk:    s“zI- (")

    Addition:    sag~u (wail, lament)

>Sumerian:       s^ag 384,2 (word)
>Turkish:        s”v (")

>Sumerian:       s^e 367,58d (to eat)
>Turkish:        yemek (to eat)

    Comment:     The verb is "ye", no need for participle form

>Sumerian:       s^ug 367,11/2 (big, be big, much)
>Turkish:        ‡ok (lots)

    Addition:    çIg~ (avalanche)
                 çIg~Il (a big crowd)

>Sumerian:       s^eg8 551,4 (frost, ice, cold)
>Turkish:        sog^ut (cold)

    Addition:    çig~ (frost, dew)

>Sumerian:       us^ 4 536,26 (mind, intellect)
>Turkish:        us (intelligence)

>Sumerian:       as^ 2 339,8 (to long for, to want)
>Turkish:        istemek (to want, to desire)

>Sumerian:       gis^ 296,16 (hand)
>Turkish:        kuuvet (strength, power)

    Correction:  this is a borrow word, not a Turkish one
    Addition:    karI$ (span of a flat/open hand)

>Sumerian:       zal 231,16 (also: sal, s^al) (to see) 
                 ?????

>Sumerian:       zal(ag) 393,5 (be lighted, star, to shine)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    s^olpan (Morning Star, Venus)

    Addition:    yal (flame, shine, light)
                 I$Il (shine, light)

>Sumerian:       zir 84,108 (suffering, hurt)
>Turkish:        sIzI (ache, pain)

>Sumerian:       izi 172,11/17/13 (fire, oven, ash, to flame up)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    issyk (warm)

    Addition:    IsI   (heat)
                 is    (soot)
                 issi  (suffocating heat, scorching hot)

>Sumerian:       izi 172.159 (sour)
>Turkish:        eks,i (")

    Addition:    yig~si (unplesant smell)

>Sumerian:       zig 84,45 (to raise oneself, to get oneself up)
>Turkish:        ‡Ikmak (to go out, to move out, to graduate)

    Addition:    çIk (to climb)

>Sumerian:       ri 86,41,74 (to fly)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    erb„ng (unsupportable, cannot stand up)

>Sumerian:       sir3 152,3(also: sur, s^ar, sing, song, compose music)
>Turkish:        s,arkI (song)

    Comment:     I don't believe this is a Turkish word
    Addition:    çIg~Ir / çag~Ir (to call, to sing)

>Sumerian:       er 50,7 (also: ir, ur) (man, manly)
>Turkish:        er (man, male)

>Sumerian:       bar 74,100 (to frighten oneself, to scare)
>Turkish:        perva (")

    Correction:  can this be verified as a Turkish word?

>Sumerian:       ur2 203,7 (underground, ground)
>Turkish:        alt (bottom)

    Addition:    ura (easily tilled soil)
                 yer (ground)

>Sumerian:       ma 342,98b/10 (also: ma-da) (land, earth, homeland)
>Uigur Turk:     budun (folk, people)

>Sumerian:       ma 233,2 (to go)
>Old Turkish:    man- (")

>Sumerian:       ma3 233,3a (I)
>Turkish:        ben (I)

>Sumerian:       eme 237,2 (also: ama) (mother)
>Turkish:        ana (mother) emcik (nipple) emmek (to suck)

    Addition:    eme (aunt)

>Sumerian:       gam 362,6 (it bends over)
>Turkish:        kemer (arch, vault)

>Sumerian:       na 97,4 (be named, call)
>Turkish:        nam (")

    Possible??:  an  (to call, to be called, to recall/remember)

>Finnish:        omen (apple)
>Turkish:        elma (")

    Comment:     alma (apple, older/alternate spelling)

>Sumerian:       du3 230,19 (known, experienced, knowledge)
>Turkish:        tanImak (to know)

    Comment:     dan (to find, to know [older spelling])
    Addition:    duy (to hear, to sense, to feel)
                 du"$ (to think, to dream)
> ------------------------------------------
MK

Robert-Jan Veldhuizen  > wrote:
>
>That's just what the US government wants you to believe, so that they can
>continue using their power in the UN/Security Council and let other countries
>pay for it.
>
>I guess you forgot how eager Bush was to use the UN/Security Council when they
>got into a conflict with Iraq.

And you think that Bush would not have acted without a UN in existence,
huh?

Joe

Wally Keeler > wrote:
>Quite frankly your little whine is not worth the effort of me disabling
>the automatic dump into your mailbox when I reply to your Amusenet toxic
>waste.
Further proof of your inconsiderate nature.

>>>I quoted that poets are liars.
>> That does not save your butt. You still are not a reliable source.
>
>And you adequately demonstrated that you are in the same league of
>unreliability.
Nice try.

>My little Bulibash of Banality. Whatever your field is, it is one that is
>a dessert of imagination, bereft of the vivid colours and delights of
>language that pirouettes.
As you have no idea what it is, might as well shut up and learn.

> On your best days you might be able to achieve
>156 levels of grey, but 16.5 million pixels of colour is beyond your
>dreams. 
Once again that is ONLY your view (borju').

>Interestingly, you seem to posture as an expert in the field of
>poetry where you are dismally unpublished and always will be.
It does not take an expert to separate trash from treasure.

>> Too bad you remain in darkness and likely you always will.
>
>Pity for you that those who are competent in the field (not a rank amateur
>like you) have a contrary view. So it only natural that your view is held
>in contempt.
What field? Poetry? Probably yes. That's your only field you monochrome 
display. You can dream about 16.5 million colors, but you can't display them. 
Just one (black).
>
>>>>>
>>>>Do you really want to start all over again?
>>>

BUCHAREST, Dec. 6 (UPI) -- Seven parties making up Romania's
new,  
rightist parliamentary majority pledged Friday to support premier Victor 
Ciorbea's tough economic measures by signing a solidarity pact. 
        ``We have signed the pact in order to see a real economic
reform  
through,'' said President Emil Constantinescu shortly after the 
ceremony. 
        With more than 20 ministerial jobs divided among Christian
Democrats,  
Liberals and Social Democrats, the new ruling coalition sanctioned by 
the nOV. 3 elections looked poised to cut deep into what had been 
regarded as a slow-paced economic transition. 
        ``It is not going to be easy, because (the reform) has been
postponed  
for seven years, but if we continue to relish in cosmetic steps we shall 
never make it,'' said Constantinescu. 
        Faced with 80 percent annual inflation and a budget deficit of
10  
percent of the gross domestic product, a far cry from the targeted 2.5 
percent, Ciorbea's Cabinet pledged to scrap redundant industries and 
curtail subsidies while forcing the privatization of all national 
utilities. 
        ``We are going to take very difficult measures and that is why
we  
called it a 'solidarity pact', hoping to rally the whole nation behind 
us,'' said an energetic Petre Roman, Romania's first premier whose 
Social Democratic Union proved decisive in securing the needed 
parliamentary majority. 
        Ion Diaconescu, chairman of the Democratic Convention, the  
uncontested winner of the general elections and holder of 12 portfolios 
in the new Cabinet, put it bluntly that the pact had been ``imposed'' by 
the political situation. 
        ``The fact is we needed a stable majority in Parliament,'' he
said.  
        The parliamentary majority includes also the Ethnic Hungarians'  
Democratic Union, for the first time in Romania's history represented in 
the Cabinet by a minister of tourism. 
        The move triggered harsh reactions from former President Ion  
Iliescu's Social Democracy Party which ruled for the last four years. 
       

 ``O n e  e t h n i c  H u n g a r i a n   i n  t h e   g o v e r n m e
n t         
 m e a n s  t h a t   H u n g a r y  w i l l   k n o w  e v e r y   s e
c r e t 
 o f     o u r   n a t i o n,''      said deputy   A d r i a n  N a s t
a s e. 
 
       The new government will be sworn in Monday, after weeks of
fervent  
squabbles on who should take which ministry.

In article >,  says...

:
:But first I would like to make a point about the
:above comments... The first word list had alrady
:indicated "s^olpan" as "Kyrgyz Turk", what is the
:point in reiterating it as "qIrgIz vs. old turkish"?

 due to some problems with the newsreader, I reposted my article with the 
added comment that the change s^ < c^ is a qIrgIz peculiarity, while most 
turkic languages including old turkish have c^olpan, which is a better 
cognate with the other languages.

JOHN L. BERENYI > wrote:
>I'm first born and my father was a Hungarian Freedom Fighter during the
>1956 Uprising. My mother also escaped during this time and met my father
>at Camp Kilmer New Jersey where some of the refugees where kept. Almost
>95% of my family is still there.

Sounds just like the story of my older brother.  I bet he knows your dad
as he still lives in NJ.

Joe

In article >, Zoltan Pasztor > wrote:
>/OMRI/ quote
>---
>DOCUMENTS ON HUNGARY'S "OILGATE" SCANDAL GET 80-YEAR
>SECRECY STAMP. Istvan Nikolits, minister responsible for secret
>services, has placed an 80-year stamp of secrecy on data related to
>the so-called oilgate affair, Hungarian media reported on 9 December.
>The opposition Democratic Forum fiercely protested the move.
>Silence has surrounded the affair ever since a parliamentary
>commission was formed to investigate the charges brought by
>opposition deputies and the press that several Socialist party
>members had been involved in business deals related to Russia's
>repayment of its debt to Hungary. Among others, former Trade and
>Industry Ministers Imre Dunai and Laszlo Pal were accused of using
>their influence to secure contracts for certain Socialist-leaning
>business firms
>----
>unquote

Yeah, I raised my head on that news too!  Can anybody guess just what
might justify such secrecy with regards to a controversial *business*
deal?  I thought such classification was meant for national security
related issues.  I have a hard time to see that to be the case here.
I can't imagine the Antall regime would have ever had the thick skin
of these guys!  If they tried anything like this, the media would have
crucified them for it.  Where is that media attention now?

Joe

Searching for our WOJTASIEWICZ family.  Please send e-mail to

Searching our BEDNAR family.  Spelling appears differently on various
papers.  Please e-mail 

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_________________________________________________________________

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/OMRI/ quote
---
DOCUMENTS ON HUNGARY'S "OILGATE" SCANDAL GET 80-YEAR
SECRECY STAMP. Istvan Nikolits, minister responsible for secret
services, has placed an 80-year stamp of secrecy on data related to
the so-called oilgate affair, Hungarian media reported on 9 December.
The opposition Democratic Forum fiercely protested the move.
Silence has surrounded the affair ever since a parliamentary
commission was formed to investigate the charges brought by
opposition deputies and the press that several Socialist party
members had been involved in business deals related to Russia's
repayment of its debt to Hungary. Among others, former Trade and
Industry Ministers Imre Dunai and Laszlo Pal were accused of using
their influence to secure contracts for certain Socialist-leaning
business firms
----
unquote