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1 Hungarian born, Canadian businessman-accountant will tr (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: MAKOIAK (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
3 Ja szbe reny ONLINE! (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: re. information about rommania wanted (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
5 Sandor Iharos (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Budapest Resturants (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Information about rommania wanted (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
8 ertekek es a vadliberalisok (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
9 Minority Rights (mind)  108 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Change of ethnic composition in Romania (1) (mind)  64 sor     (cikkei)
11 BABY SITTER NEEDED IN USA (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Forint mint valuta? (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: MAKOIAK (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Hungarian born, Canadian businessman-accountant will tr (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hungarian born, Canadian businessman-accountant will travel to Budapest
during the summer,1996.

   Will take on assignments to look for business opportunities,  do
investment and business evaluations and audits.

Robert Gelb C.M.A., Robert Gelb and Associates Inc.                 
12 Bradenton Drive,Willowdale,Ontario M2H 1Y5, Canada                          
(905)940-2380, (905)946-1734 FAX                       
- Investment Specialists             
- Business Plan Preparations and Evaluations,                           - Busin
ess Management and Financial Consulting                       
- Mergers and acquisitions
+ - Re: MAKOIAK (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


akkor mar magyarorszagrol legalabb ketten elerik ezt a csoportot!!!

(ez is valami, nem?)

+ - Ja szbe reny ONLINE! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

See "Searching for Us" -- A graphic article about the Ja'sz people of 
Hungary and their Iranian roots.

+ - Re: re. information about rommania wanted (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Cristian Tomescu 
hi.com> says:
>      () wrote: >
>     >His body [ie. admiral horthy] was reburied in Hungary
>     >recently in a private ceremony, organized by the surviving members of 
>     >his family and the associatation of former Hungarian navy men.
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???
>     hungarian navy men???
>     you mean belonging to the DANUBIAN first fleet? ;-)
>     or maybe to the flotilla of atilla stationed in the sea of balaton? 
>     ;-)

Yes, the title of *Admiral* for Horthy seems like a joke for a land-
locked country, but it presumably harks back to the days of the Austro-
Hungarian Empire which extended to the Adriatic Sea.   



George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
*********** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list ***********
+ - Sandor Iharos (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From the obituary in the New York Times on 25 Jan:

"Sandor Iharos, 65; Champion Runner Set 11 World Marks

Sandor Iharos of Hungary, a middle-distance and distance runner
who broke seven world records in 14 months in 1955 and 1956, has
died in Budapest. He was 65 years old.

The announcement was made yesterday by the International Amateur
Athletic Federation, the world governing body of track and field,
from its offices in Monte Carlo. It said Mr. Iharos died Tuesday
or yesterday. No cause of death was given.

For a minimally muscled man of 5 feet 11 inches and 132 pounds who 
never ran until late in his teens, Mr. Iharos progressed quickly. He 
set 11 world records, and he ranked with compatriots Laszlo Tabori
and Istvan Rozsavolgyi among the world's elite runners. All three
were coached by Mihaly Igloi.

From May 14, 1955, to July 16, 1956, Mr. Iharos set world records
for 1500 meters (3 minutes 40.8 seconds), 3000 meters (7:55.6),
two miles (8.33.4), three miles (13:14.2), 5000 meters (13:40.6),
six miles (27:43.8) and 10000 meters (28:42.8). The 10000-meter
record came in his first race at that distance."


+ - Re: Budapest Resturants (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 (George Antony Ph 93818) writes:

>Something to avoid is the Matyas Pince on the Pest side of Elizabeth Bridge: 
>brash tourist place with Gypsy music and kitsch galore.  If you are after 
>something like that then walk another block away from the Danube and go to the
>Apostolok where the food is good (although just as pricey) and there is a 

Sorry, that should be Karpatia.

+ - Re: Information about rommania wanted (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > CHARLES VAMOSSY .
com> writes:
>Subject: Re: Information about rommania wanted
>Date: 21 Jan 1996 18:23:24 GMT


>>By the way Vamossy's flame refers to an overreaction of Iliescu to the fact
>>that the Hungarian national Day had been celebrated with hymn and flags in 
>>*Romanian official buildings* leading to some national tentions in the 

>I am encouraged by Mihailescu's admission that the infamous flag law was 
>in fact an overreaction directed against Romania's ethnic Hungarian 
>minority.  It's not that simple, however.

>For this law to become effective, duly elected members of Romania's 
>Parliament had to formulate it, introduce it, debate it in committee and 
>then passed by a majority of members, who represent the people of 
>Romania.  Once passed, President Iliescu, also elected by the people of 
>Romania, had a choice of not signing it or sign it.  He signed.

>And while the law may have been directed against Romania's Hungarians, it 
>in fact makes no reference to that fact and bans ALL flags and national 

>I realize, of course, that the Flag Law has little practical import, 
>unless it is used to jail someone for violating it.  Most likely that 
>someone is not going to be a visiting Englishman or American, but a 
>Romanian citizen of Hungarian ethnic origin.

>The law, however, is most telling about the political and social climate 
>of Romania.  Through the democratic process, the law reflects the mood 
>and will of the Romanian people and shows their deep seated 
>insecurityand hostility to foreigners.  Unless, of course, you tell me 
>that democracy has nothing to do with it, in which case we have another 

>Charles Vamossy

Hey you! If the Hungarians want to celebrate the Hungary National Day, they 
must do that at Budapest or in other hungarian city. Not in Romania.
+ - ertekek es a vadliberalisok (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Tamas (Kocsis)

  >Ez elsősorban a korosztályomra nézve szégyenletes, meg
rád, hogy Te ezt elfogadod. Valóban más értékek dívnak, elkurvult
ez az ország.

 En ertem, hogy mi itten el vagyunk kurvulva, azt is ertem, hogy
 ez szegyenletes. Te viszont nem  "kurvultal el", csak emberek
 szazainak, ezreinek agyonloveset javasoltad, egy szlovakiai
 nuklearis letesitmeny elleni bombatamadast, tovabba nemzetbaratnak
 nevezted Ceausescu-t es Pinochet-et. Nemzetbaratnak nevezted hatszazezer
 magyar allampolgar halalbakuldeset is (es akkor a ketszazezer ertelmetlenul
 elpusztult magyar honvedrol meg nem is beszeltem).
 Amikor a magyar kulturat egy az egyben kiveted a nemzeti ertekek 
 kozul, mert ujgazdag barataid azt nem birjak fogyasztani, szinten
 nem elkurvulas,  kifejezetten tradicionalis nemzeti ertekrendre vall, 
 csak mi hulyek nem vesszuk eszre.
 Azert enged meg nekem, hogy ingassam a fejem. Erre meg egy magamfajta
 "nemzetidegennek" is joga van. EG

 P.S Egy amerikai folyoirat a minap a narkotikumok teljes legalizalasat
 javasolta. A foszerkeszto azota funek-fanak nyilatkozik es kiall
 a velemeny mellett. Ha megtenned, hogy la'tatlanban levadliberalisozod
 a fenti urat, akkor lehiszem, hogy fasza nemzeti legeny vagy, ha nem,
 akkor kenytelen vagyok feltetelezni, hogy beszari kispolgar vagy,
 aki keptelen uralkodni kisszeru gyulolkodesein es ideologianak tunteti
 fel az impotenciajat. :-))))
+ - Minority Rights (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 14 Jan 96, d.A., i.e. ibokor > wrote:

>>I would seriously argue that there are many countries in Europe with a  
>>much better record of minority treatment than Romania.  Switzerland,  
>>Italy, Holland, Spain come to mind. 

>You should perhaps look into at least Switzerland and Spain more carefully.
>Ask a few questions about how the Swiss population and authorities have
>treated "das fahrende Volk", as an example.
>Ask a few question about the "difficulties" and civil disturbances in,
>say, Andalucia or the prohibition for so long of the Catalonian
>language, etc. in Spain.

Yes indeed. Let's look at Spain "carefully". The first step would be
be to read:

	The Catalan Statute of Autonomy
	Generalitat de Catalunya
	Departament de la Presidencia
	March, 1993

Some brief excerpts:

"In the process of regaining their democratic freedom the people of
Catalonia also recover their institutions of self-government.

Catalonia, exercising the right to self-government which the
Constitution recognizes and guarantees to all nationalities and
regions of which Spain is composed, manifests its desire to
constitute a Self-Governing-Community.


Article 3

1. The language proper to Catalonia is Catalan.

2. Catalan is the official language of Catalonia, as is Castilian, the
official language of the whole of the Spanish State.

3. The "Generalitat" shall guarantee normal and official use of both
languages, adopting all measures necessary to ensure they are known, and
creating those conditions which shall make possible their full equality
with regard to the duties and rights of the citizens of Catalonia.

Article 4

The Catalan flag is the traditional one of four red stripes on a yellow


Article 13

1. The "Generalitat" may set up an Autonomous Police Force within the 
framework of this Statute.....


Switzerland is also an excellent example. Switzerland has four (4)
official languages and the government protects and furthers (!) the
interests of its minorities. Recently, Prof Chasper Pult, President
of the Lia Rumantscha, representing the Raeto-Romansch minority
of Switzerland spoke at the conference "Promoting European Security
and Integration: The Role of National Minorities" in the US House of
Representatives' foreign relations hearing room. He passed around in
the audience his passport and a Swiss banknote to demonstrate that
one of the languages on these documents is Romansch, even though less
than one percent (!!) of the population of Switzerland belongs to this
group. He pointed out that during the first three years of school,
children of this ethnic group learn the Romansch language. The Swiss
Federation allows the sharing of power between the cantons (i.e.
counties) and the central government, leading to effective protection
of national minorities. This results in the demonstrated fact that
minorities retain their identity without harboring exclusivist sentiments.

Contrast this with the situation in Slovakia with the roughly 10%
ethnic Hungarians or Romania, where Hungarians, Saxons, Romani make up
in excess of 23% of the population. In both of these countries, 
repressive, anti-minority legislation was recently enacted.

Thus, as a.D. suggests "looking" can be very educational. It does not
take long to realize that advocates of the unitary state nonsense can
not, in light of the fact that in Europe there are 70 different peoples
but only 36 states with more than half a million inhabitants, close
their eyes to reality and not suffer the consequences. (In Europe there
are at least 250 national or ethnic minorities with over one hundred
million persons which corresponds to one seventh of the 750 million

As the Federal Union of European Nationalitiea (FUEN) recently stated:

"States are products of human society. They exist for the people and not
vice versa. At least since the triumphant advance of democracy, this
principle can claim general validity. Therefore states have to adapt to
the necessities of the people. Polyethnic populations necessitate
multinational states. This insight is the indispensible prerequisite for
the reform of the states, with the aim to overcome, through integration,
national conflicts between ethnically heterogeneous parts of populations 
of different sizes, in order to arrive at a national partnership which 
alone can guarantee the necessary solidarity and loyalty of all with all
and the necessary stability of long-lasting peace."

The message has not gotten through to the rulers in Bratislava or
Bucaresti. Time is not on their side.

+ - Re: Change of ethnic composition in Romania (1) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian,soc.culture.magyar 
From: (Alexander N. Bossy) 
Subject: Re: Change of ethnic composition in Romania (1) 
Organization: The Pipeline 
X-PipeUser: alxander 
X-PipeHub: nyc.pipeline.com 
X-PipeGCOS: (Alexander N. Bossy) 
X-Newsreader: The Pipeline v3.3.0 
References: > 
On Jan 18, 1996 07:33:08 in article <Re: Change of ethnic composition in
Romania (1)>,  ()' wrote: 
>Alexander N. Bossy > wrote: 
>>Assimilation of minorities, by itself, is not a bad thing.  The question
>>how much of the assimilation is voluntary, and how much is forced.  
>>Voluntary assmilation is good (after all, individual freedom is good).  
>>Forced assmilation is bad (after all, lack of individual freedom is bad).
>>Therefore, showing that one population group is growing quicker than 
>>another really doesn't advance the debate (even if we accept your
>>(and unproved) premisse that Hungarians and Romanians, on average, have 
>>exactly the same number of children, at exactly the same age).  
>I don't know if you realize this, Alexander, but your posts are a gold 
>mine for Hungarian counterarguments.  Like the following, for instance. 
>The kind of statement you made about natural assimilation is usually 
>flat-out denied when Hungarians say that to explain the same thing you 
>are trying to. 
Obviously, some Romanians did voluntarily assimilate under Hungarian rule. 
(I think that we all know at least one Magyarized family of Romanian
origins which became more than a little prominent in the Middle Ages. ;-)) 
But, they aren't the real issue.  It is the vast population that was forced
to go to Hungarian langauge schools, the people who were forced to give
their children Magyar names, anti-Romanian discrimination etc. etc. mostly
after 1867.  And, our arguments are based on laws passed by Hungary as well
as the observations and recolections of outsiders, as well as Hungarians
and Romanians of the period. 
None of this is to say that there is no anti-Hungarian discrimination in
Transylvania today.  But, an argument that it exists must be based on
actual casses of discrimination, forcible assimilation, etc., etc, and not
by merely showing that one part of the population is growing at a faster
rate than another part of the population. 
>  Hungarians, as we all know, forcibly assimilate others, 
>"magyarize".  They can't possibly do that the "old fashined way": 
>naturally.  That's the sole domain of minorities doing it to Magyars. 
If only the world were such a simple place, but, alas, it is always much,
much more complicated.... 
>I wonder why would those uppity Magyars even consider to assimilate into 
>those oppressed minorities.  Were they out of their mind? 
Perhaps both of the diasporas could learn more than a little about mutual
toleration and even respect from the Transylvanians themselves. 
+ - BABY SITTER NEEDED IN USA (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

+ - Re: Forint mint valuta? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
   T. Kocsis > wrote:
>In article > VAX2.concordia.ca,
>>Az egyik baratom azt allitja hogy a forint konvertibilis januartol,
>Igen, a forint jaunar else ota eleget tesz az OECD konvertibilitasi
>>mindenki annyi dollart vehet otthon amennyit csak akar.
>Vallalatokra ez tuti igaz, a maganyember direkt penzvaltasanak maxi-
>mumarol nincs infom. Hitelkartyat hasznalva viszont nincsen felso

Mielott szetdurrannank a Forint konvertibilitasa felett erzett 
buszkesegunktol, megemlitem, hogy kiserleti ember leven bementem kedvenc 
bankomba, aholis kozoltek, hogy nincs Zurichben bank aki megvenne Forintot.


Peter Szaszvari
+ - Re: MAKOIAK (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

KIS Balint ) wrote:
: Amugy neha az az erzesem mintha en lennek az egyetlen aki Mo-rol 
: valaszolgat, eme hircsoportba. Kerem cafoljon mar meg valaki ebben!
: Bye-bye 
:      Balint
Neha en is megeresztek egy szosszenetet ide.