Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 157
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-12-07
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: budapesti lakas/apartment in budapest (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: RFE/RL ? (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
3 Contribution by Fred Hamori Re: Hungary # 143 (Sat 3 D (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: RFE/RL ? (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: RFE/RL ? (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
6 It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: RFE/RL ? (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
9 From Ko3ba1nya to Bosnia (mind)  87 sor     (cikkei)
10 George Lazar and Gyorgy Lazar (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
11 Dogs in Budapest (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
12 Life expectancy in USA (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
13 Medical care in Hungary (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: B-H no comment (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: budapesti lakas/apartment in budapest (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Mon, 5 Dec 1994, Joe Pannon wrote:

> Now that was pretty good Hungarian from a non-native! Where did you
> learn that, Jennifer?

I agree, it was incredible!!

  I am surprised though about the high cost of
> rentals in Budapest that your offer implies.  You should get a mension
> for that, I would think.


Reality check, Joe, prices are not like they used to be under communism.
I would think, though, that for $350 you possibly can rent a one bedroom
in a nice location.  Though, sometimes I am sure you can get good deals,
as anywhere else.

Zoli
+ - Re: RFE/RL ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe, by this time this news wasn't discussed in any way on the Romanian news
group; it was mentioned there, of course (you can even see that the first
article, posted by me, was copied from there).

We didn't pay attention to this article, as the whole idea seemed to stupid to
deserve our consideration; how could you even think it was true?

It's my turn to be surprised.

Constantin
+ - Contribution by Fred Hamori Re: Hungary # 143 (Sat 3 D (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I want to react to this contribution, but my copy of the message he wrote
did not contain his (originating) e-mail address. Could Mr. Hamori come
forward please?
Rudolf W. MEIJER

+ - Re: RFE/RL ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

If these reports are downloadable at any site, please let me know the URL,
Gopher, FTP site at which they are accessible.

Thanks,

Alex
+ - Re: RFE/RL ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Constantin:

> We didn't pay attention to this article, as the whole idea seemed to stupid t
o
> deserve our consideration; how could you even think it was true?

Right.  This whole thing was obviously cooked up by the Hungarian secret
services (AVO, as Dima likes to call it).  When it comes to whom to
believe, the Austrian or Romanian security service, the decision is
not too difficult.

Joe
+ - It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Once you discover what is the #1 problem, it is a little easier
to discover what other countries could successfully do about it.
Poland, and even Bulgaria did renegotiate her debt long time ago.
There is absolutely no valid reason why Hungary could not do the
same, in fact she definitely will. The only questions are
(1) when,  (2) by whom -- and even Lazar knows that.

Many people from Hungary often boast how outstanding economists
Hungary claims, and how fantastic Hungarian bankers are. While
I don't want to get into the question of validity of these claims,
they certainly contradict to the fact that Poland and Bulgaria
could successfully get rid of a huge portion of their debt, while
Hungary did not reduce her debt by a single penny.
+ - Re: RFE/RL ? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>We didn't pay attention to this article, as the whole idea seemed to stupid to
>deserve our consideration; how could you even think it was true?

>It's my turn to be surprised.

>Constantin

Exactly which part of the "idea" seems inconceivable or untrue--Given the
hostility of elements of the Romanian authority to the Hungarian activists?
Also, I don't believe that the chief of the Austrian Counterintelligence
Service would make a totally unfounded statement.

N.H.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
*
+ - Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Tue, 6 Dec 1994  wrote:

> Once you discover what is the #1 problem, it is a little easier
> to discover what other countries could successfully do about it.
> Poland, and even Bulgaria did renegotiate her debt long time ago.
> There is absolutely no valid reason why Hungary could not do the
> same, in fact she definitely will. The only questions are
> (1) when,  (2) by whom -- and even Lazar knows that.

I disagree, becaus eyou have to consider who the debt is owed to.  In the
case of Poland and also Bulgaria, they owed much of their debt to foreign
governments, while Hungary's debt is primarily with private banks.  try
to explain it to a private creditor that the indebtedness has a very
negative effect on the country's ability of integration into Europe.
they will laugh at you.  On the other hand, governments, espacially those
who favor Central European countries in the EU, are easier to convince
for a debt relief...

>
> Many people from Hungary often boast how outstanding economists
> Hungary claims, and how fantastic Hungarian bankers are. While
> I don't want to get into the question of validity of these claims,
> they certainly contradict to the fact that Poland and Bulgaria
> could successfully get rid of a huge portion of their debt, while
> Hungary did not reduce her debt by a single penny.

Maybe my earlier paragraph will help you understand this.  It has very
little relevance to the credibility of Hungary's or for that matter
Poland's bankers.

Zoli )
+ - From Ko3ba1nya to Bosnia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

About Ko3ba1nya and Ro1zsadomb. Of course, you are right that

>Some of these differences involve more lifestyle than money: Ro1zsadomb
>switched from lard to sunflower oil in the sixties, Ko3ba1nya presumably
>didn't. Health-conscious cooking, regular excercising are not my ideas of
>Ko3ba1nya, and of course the smog was not nearly as bad. Of course the poor
>don't have the time to play tennis or go swimming (neither of these were
>particularly expensive pastimes at the time) and those who lived in
>Ko3ba1nya by definition didn't live in the green belt.


And, of course, you are also right that

>people on the Ro1zsadomb had
>better medical care than people in Ko3ba1nya. It looks to me we are saying
>the same thing here: better environment, healthier lifestyle, better medical
>care, more money -- these are major factors in what I summarized as "living
>better".


Yet, I am still outraged! It says something about Hungarian society which is
not very pretty. Also, I may have not been terribly attentive but I didn't
discern the same outrage in your voice. You just simply state that people on
the Ro1zsadomb are "living better."

Something must be done about this and the very first thing should be the
education of the public. However, I don't see any sign of it in the two
papers I am getting. I don't quite know what Judit Cseha1k is doing (and
after all she is a physician), but I don't think that they spend much energy
on educating the public on medical matters. In fact, the second half of the
article from which I originally quoted the figures for districts # I and XIX
gave up on educating the adult population of today. The man interviewed
simply stated that the only hope is in the youth because the adult
population's lifestyle cannot be changed!! I don't believe that this is so as
the American antismoking campaign amply demonstrated.

As for NATO: Well, Yeltsin is mighty upset about the whole NATO question. See
today's *New York Times*! Talking about "cold peace" instead of "cold war,"
etc. The adherence of the Visegrad countries to NATO will not be an easy
task. I don't think that little Horn of little Hungary will easily change
Yeltsin's mind.

But returning to negotiating or not negotiating with the Russians. I think
that Andras misunderstood what I wanted to say. Of course, Hungary's relation
with the Russia is pretty good today and there is no hostility between them
which would prevent a dialogue. However, given Russia's aversion to an
enlarged NATO, I don't think that Hungary's assurances (the kind Horn was
talking about) are going to calm their nerves. The whole NATO question is
really between the two former superpowers--the solution must be found at that
level.

Of course, Hungary must look after her own interests. Every country should.
But at the moment, her very adherence to NATO is in question. Her interest
would be to join NATO, but whether she will be allowed to is not at all sure.
Therefore, unilaterally negotiating with the Russians at this junction, I
think, is premature if not a folly. But, of course, this is question of
assessing the same situation differently. Andra1s thinks that negotiating
separately is a good idea; I don't think so. It is obviously just question of
tactics since we both agree that tying Hungary to the West is important.

>
>> The area should be firmly attached to the West, especially while Russia
>> is still relatively weak.

>On that one we fully agree. The only people who seem to think otherwise in
>Hungary are Munka1spa1rt on the one hand (who would much rather reenter the
>Soviet orbit) and MIE1P on the other, who kept alive the old MDF slogans
>about "egyedu2l vagyunk" and "harmadik u1t" and "sem Moszka sem Washington".


I agree when it comes to the Munka1spa1rt es a MIE1P but I am surprised that
you include the MDF because, if I recall properly, the Antall-Boross
governments were very, very eager to join the European Union and NATO. In
fact, shortly before the elections, they made sure that they apply for
membership in EU before they have to relinquish their positions. In fact,
they received no little flack from the media on the issue. Why the hurry,
members of the media asked.

As for such slogans as "we are alone, "the third road," and "neither Moscow
nor Washington," are unfortunate legacies of Hungarian populism of the 1930s.
I have a particular aversion to populism, a dislike I openly admit. I also
think very little of their literary output--in spite of all the famous names
associated with them. I really should try to read some of those "peasant"
novels and short stories today to see whether they are as dated as I think
they are.

Eva Balogh
+ - George Lazar and Gyorgy Lazar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Why is Andras Pellionisz harping on George Lazar's Anglicized first name and
why is he emphasizing that he has the same surname as the former prime
minister? I have an idea about the latter but as for George versus Gyo2rgy is
concerned, Andras Pellionisz should try to live with the name Gyo2rgy and its
pronunciation in an English-speaking country. My young cousin who is here for
a year only is called George here because this is the only sensible thing to
do. Otherwise, the poor guy would'nt recognize his own name and by insisting
on Gyo2rgy he would put undue burden on the population of the host country.

As for George Lazar's economic analysis and remedies, I find him sharp and
level-headed. When it comes to the growing indebtedness of the 1960s, 1970s,
and 1980, George is quite right that it was under control in the sense of
Hungary being able to meet its obligations, but at the same time there were
economists and bank officials who knew that the situation was getting out of
hand. Political considerations, on the other hand, prevented any other
course. There was an interesting interview with Matyas Timar, former head of
the Hungarian National Bank in one of the recent issues of HVG. If anyone is
interested I will be glad to summarize it.

Eva Balogh
+ - Dogs in Budapest (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jennifer's Hungarian is excellent and I bet it will be even better after a
semester in Hungary. A word or two on the dog. I read an article about dogs
in Budapest the other day because dogs in general are in the news nowadays
due to an unfortunate incident in Go2do2llo3 where an older woman was killed
by one or two pit bulls. In any case, it turns out that there is no more
"ebado1" (tax on dogs) because the only result was that dog owners didn't
innoculate their dogs in order to avoid the tax. As a result, the dog
population of Budapest quadrupled in the last few years. The last laws on dog
keeping were written in the 1970s but apparently little attention is paid to
these laws. Among other things, there if of course the normal leash law which
is widely ignored. Another law restricts the number of dogs to one per
apartment. Apparently, that is ignored as well. Third, and this is the most
interesting one, certain breeds must wear muzzles while walked. German
shepherds, Dobermans, Kuvaszok, Komondorok, and a number of terriers are
included. However, Rottweilers or pit bulls are not. This is a lot of
nonsense because there are many very nice Dobermans and Rottweilers, while
there can be even nasty Basset Hounds! So, if your dog looks like a German
shepherd you better be prepared! Last but not least, just in New York, owners
are supposed to pick up after their dogs. Apparently few do and again the
police enforcement is minimal.

Eva Balogh
+ - Life expectancy in USA (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Greg points out racial differences in this country as one of the sources of
divergent figures in life expectancy. Of course, Greg is quite right. There
are many reason for high infantile mortality rate among Black babies but it
is certainly a fact of life in the United States which surely has a
substantial impact on the American statistics.

Eva Balogh
+ - Medical care in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Imi Bokor has such a way with words. His style is so endearing. However, I
take exception to the following: "our resident historian imputed that
hungarian medical care was deficient because a number of cases of cancer had
not been diagnosed early enough to be treated succesfully." Our resident
historian said nothing of the sort. Instead, I listed a number of reasons,
among them, lack or scarcity of diagnostic and life saving equipment, too few
ambulances, not enough nurses, overworked and underpaid doctors, not enough
telephone lines, and so on and so forth.

Imi Bokor then makes two points. Misdiagnoses are common everywhere,
including the United States. Of course, there are misdiagnoses all over the
world. Only recently I heard of a case, right here in this state, where the
patient was losing weight and complained about chest pain. His doctor thought
that he had a "pinched nerve." Instead, he had lung cancer which, by the time
it was discovered, spread to the bone. His second point is that certain
cancers are difficult to diagnose. I am no doctor but common sense tells me
that the thought processes which go into medicine is exactly the same as in
any other scientific inquiry. The patient comes to me and tells me that he
has no appetite and is losing weight rapidly. Both are typical signs of some
kind of cancer. I run the ordinary tests, nothing comes up. Then, I say to
myself, "Eva, but there are those nasty little cancers which are difficult to
diagnose. Perhaps you should concentrate on those and see what happens."
Instead of sending him home, saying "Sorry, I have no idea what you have, go
home, and sooner or later you will be like a skeleton and surely you will
die."

I will certainly inquire about those hard-to-diagnose cancers from my young
Hungarian doctor cousin who, after six months of waiting, at last managed to
get an E-mail address. Mind you, now the university has no paper to print out
anything, or ribbons for the printer!

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Why not try Poland's solution?

d.A.
+ - Re: B-H no comment (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I just read this on HIX-MOKA:

>Nem kene Magyarorszagnak a NATO helyett inkabb a szerbekhez csatlakoznia?*

*Trans. (Aprox.) :  Instead of joining NATO, maybe Hungary should join
Szerbia ?

TB

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